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View Poll Results: Who is the better wrestler? | |||
John Cena | 11 | 37.93% | |
Andre The Giant | 18 | 62.07% | |
Voters: 29. You must log in or register to vote on this poll. |
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Thread Tools | Display Modes |
06-30-2017, 08:55 PM | #41 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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lol@ HHH
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06-30-2017, 08:58 PM | #42 | |
3 Dicks Out For Trips
Posts: 29,688
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Quote:
That's why people drifted away from the PG era. Older fans experienced what wrestling used to be and saw a superior product. Them you take away the edginess of it. The you never know what will happen aspect is gone. Suddenly guys who came off as believable during promos are spouting childish nonsense and have to be involved in increasingly stupid feuds. Moves that were staples of wrestling suddenly get banned because omg someone might get hurt. We can't show this stuff to children! Why not, you always have? So bye bye adult crowd. And I don't know about you, but even when I was a kid, I was drawn to wrestling because it was fantastically violent and unhinged and kind of taboo in a way. I wasn't allowed to say or do this stuff, so it was an amazing outlet. With this PG era, you don't draw as many kids. You know why? Because they can still get those same kind of kicks from other avenues of entertainment that aren't concerned with dumbing down their product for appearance and to help someone in a floundering political career. There are some things that go out the door with PG. They lost their ability to be believable. They aren't going to get it back until they remove the safety. It's like a good violent action movie, like John Wick. Make a PG version of it and I bet you it flops. Because it won't be believable and the actors will have scripts that make them sound like idiotic teenagers being overdramatic. |
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06-30-2017, 09:02 PM | #43 |
Loque Ja
Posts: 88,008
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Did you know wrestling was PG before the Attitude Era?
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06-30-2017, 09:04 PM | #44 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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total fucking cop out and complete myth. They were on the decline BIG TIME before the PG era. Revisionist nonsense. Started declining during the invasion.
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06-30-2017, 09:04 PM | #45 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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And the big boom in the 80s was 100% PG.
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06-30-2017, 09:06 PM | #46 | ||
Posts: 60,998
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I completely disagree with the sentiment about him being better in the ring than all of those guys except Triple H. Austin and Rock were magnetic and fantastic at holding fans' interests. Promo-wise? Cena can talk alright, but I'm not sure he doesn't get smoked by the authentic bad-assery of Austin and Rock. Some of Cena's promos actually manage to miss the point of themselves too. He's not a god on the mic. Some of his stuff stinks. Some is excellent. Honestly, I'm not sure he makes it past mid-card in the Attitude era. |
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06-30-2017, 09:06 PM | #47 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,111
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Hard to turn back the clock on that stuff though. Once you light a guy on fire its not easy to start telling poop jokes
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06-30-2017, 09:08 PM | #48 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,111
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Also Cena hasnt been good for tv but he's been killer for merch. Respect where its due.
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06-30-2017, 09:08 PM | #49 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,111
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5-9...still undecided
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06-30-2017, 09:09 PM | #50 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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That's the thing though, they didn't have to tell poop jokes because they were pg. That is just Vince being a fucking idiot. It could still be violent, but just dial back on the blood and gratuity. But let's get serious, Vince and co. don't really understand subtlety and nuance.
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06-30-2017, 09:09 PM | #51 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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06-30-2017, 09:10 PM | #52 |
Posts: 60,998
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Another reason for the PG era is to bring back advertisers. If you've got good sponsors and can hold a good place in the ratings, it's more likely that the USA Network isn't going to boot you, and destroy a key stream of revenue. Despite being #1 in cable, RAW has been bounced off networks before because they've just decided they want to go in a different direction. A large part of that is the perception of wrestling that the Attitude era helped foster.
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06-30-2017, 09:11 PM | #53 | |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,111
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06-30-2017, 09:12 PM | #54 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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06-30-2017, 09:14 PM | #55 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,451
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My Rushmore is Cena, Hogan, Austin, and Y2J. Y2J may be replaced with Flair depending on the given day.
Andre is amazing and probably the best special attraction wrestling will ever see. But Cena is just a total package. You can't blame him for the ratings decreasing since that was happening regardless. If anything, Cena brought in little kids to help combat the decline of the crop of fans leaving. |
06-30-2017, 09:15 PM | #56 |
Loque Ja
Posts: 88,008
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I dunno if I made this up, but I swear during the 80s when someone got hit with a chair or something a big red "CENSORED" text would come over where the chair was connecting.......
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06-30-2017, 09:15 PM | #57 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,111
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I like the old method random gigging. Sells the danger element.
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06-30-2017, 09:16 PM | #58 | |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,111
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Jericho?????????? ...we will save this for another day... |
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06-30-2017, 09:16 PM | #59 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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06-30-2017, 09:17 PM | #60 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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06-30-2017, 09:19 PM | #61 |
Loque Ja
Posts: 88,008
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I imagine Rushmore Jericho sculpted with him doing his biggest "troll" smile
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06-30-2017, 09:21 PM | #62 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,451
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06-30-2017, 10:13 PM | #63 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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Why would Jericho be on your mount rushmore?
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06-30-2017, 10:54 PM | #64 | |
Posts: 60,998
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He did great merchandise with the audience he did strengthen, and he's not a bad wrestler by any stretch; but this idea that he has somehow been a draw needs to be dismissed. He isn't. Ratings are now dependent on him, because they've jammed so much into the John Cena train that when he's not there everything gets derailed. That's a different thing to spiking ratings based on how hot you are as an act during the main body of your career. |
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06-30-2017, 10:57 PM | #65 |
Posts: 60,998
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Austin, Hogan, Flair and Andre are probably the national era Rushmore, to be perfectly honest. Destor's point aside, I do think you can make a case for Rock -- given that we are talking about a specific window of time anyway, and Rock is easily one of the biggest stars in that time frame.
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06-30-2017, 11:00 PM | #66 |
Best Poster
Posts: 56,921
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Austin, Hogan, Rock and Bruno
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06-30-2017, 11:21 PM | #67 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,111
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Dont understand the lack of Flair...
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07-01-2017, 12:06 AM | #69 | |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,451
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07-01-2017, 12:08 AM | #70 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,451
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Dude is amazing at everything he does. Face/heel it does not matter. He reinvented himself more times than I can count. He has the longevity too. He has no cracks in his game. He is basically Flair besides being able to be a face.
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07-01-2017, 12:21 AM | #71 |
Rigged from the start
Posts: 35,422
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And meanwhile, let's all put on our blinders and our rose-colored glasses and pretend Benoit never happened. I'm sorry, dude, I love you as a poster, but you're absolutely out of your fucking mind if you seriously think what happened surrounding him 10 years ago now wasn't the original catalyst for WWE going PG in 2008. Did Linda's political aspirations have some small factor? I'm sure they did, but not nearly as much as you'd have us believe.
Just sayin'. |
07-01-2017, 12:30 AM | #72 |
I'm Something Else
Posts: 1,684
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My Mount rushmore would be as follows:
Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, Undertaker and Ric Flair |
07-01-2017, 12:51 AM | #73 |
Posts: 60,998
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I've never been able to judge Flair historically. He's so "rassling" that I'm not sure he really crosses over into the mainstream conscience the same way. It's not a knock on him, and I'm probably underestimating him, but he doesn't feel as "huge" as guys who did transcend. I feel dumb typing that though.
I think if WCW had won the Monday Night War, Flair would be on without question. He probably should be anyway. Limiting this to four is just dumb, really. |
07-01-2017, 12:54 AM | #74 |
Rigged from the start
Posts: 35,422
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How is it "dumb" exactly? Is it "dumb" to have the Final Four consist of the only four teams?
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07-01-2017, 12:57 AM | #75 | |
Posts: 60,998
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A great career, but let's not forget how awful his Undisputed Champion push was. Jericho himself admits that he hadn't yet developed the skills to play a heavyweight, top-tier, main event heel. Flair could also be an amazing babyface who drew money. You also have a lot of other people who can do it both about as well, if not better than Jericho. I'd say Angle was about as good a babyface as Jericho was. Angle actually managed to win the WWE Title as a babyface. Eddie Guerrero was brilliant in both roles. Shawn Michaels may have suffered as a babyface in his initial run, but during his second run, he was seamless in both roles. Austin and Rock can play both characters effectively. I don't really get why Jericho is being ranked a notch about everyone else here. A great talent, but far from the greatest in any area, far from the most well-rounded, and far from the most effective. |
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07-01-2017, 01:01 AM | #76 |
Posts: 60,998
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Why even do a Mt. Rushmore of wrestling? Why is that even a thing? You have to overlook so many important contributors from different eras. It's restrictive and doesn't cover any area of consensus without further clarification.
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07-01-2017, 01:03 AM | #77 | |
Posts: 60,998
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07-01-2017, 01:04 AM | #78 |
Posts: 60,998
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Yeah, but that doesn't mean Cena was the best choice for business, because he evidently wasn't. Business going on a downward trend in no way excuses you making it worse. That's the excuse Russo defenders use when backing up his WCW run. If ratings go up when you lose, then you are a little bit to blame.
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07-01-2017, 02:32 AM | #79 | |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
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WWE was lame and out of touch before the PG era. PG is not the problem. |
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07-01-2017, 06:09 AM | #80 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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Jericho was super over in his recent run Noidsy. Worked in today's landscape. I know you love to be a hater of the current product, but he got a list over, as well as the phrases "You're gonna get... it" and "stupid idiot". Great character work. Clunkier in the ring but he's well into his 40s.
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