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Old 10-09-2017, 06:12 PM   #81
Noid
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Still find it bizarre that the buys for Fully Loaded 2000 (headlined by The Rock vs. Chris Benoit for the WWF Title) matched Backlash 2000 (headlined by The Rock vs. Triple H in an Iron Man Match for the WWF Title). When you go back to that time in your memory, you think "Oh, Triple H was obviously the more effective star." Was he? Was he really? By which metric? By being able to bask in The Rock's glory?

Triple H is no doubt very historically significant. The WWE has obviously booked him that way. He's linked to some giant moments and great matches. But the idea that he has always been effective in his role is absolutely horse-shit. In fact, most of the time, Triple H's effectiveness has been negligible at best.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:13 PM   #82
Noid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
On a message board about wrestling, I guess I assume a lot more people are like that too.

Regardless, there are definitely disrespectful ways to post spoilers, and I hope that the people that do that around here or anywhere get dysentery.
Oh, and I get that. And that's cool. I'm not saying my way is better, just that I get that some people like to read up on stuff before they watch it. But yeah, spoilers should be marked.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:55 PM   #83
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Hhh was dope af between january 2000 until wrestlemania 17. Before and after there were only scattered moments of greatness.

Even still he should never have been booked as the top guy.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:07 PM   #84
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Wait, I think I am talking about Judgment Day where HHH only drew as much as Benoit against The Rock. Sorry, I get confused by those two all the time for some reason.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:08 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Hhh was dope af between january 2000 until wrestlemania 17. Before and after there were only scattered moments of greatness.

Even still he should never have been booked as the top guy.
Yeah, I agree with this assessment. It's not like the dude is bad or anything, and he's been really great at certain points, but it never flowered into actually effecting the bottom line more than someone else in the role would have.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:54 PM   #86
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Think people are being harsh on HHH in here. He had some awesome matches and feuds. At his peak, he was fantastic.

He has some great feuds on the rise to being a star and by the time he got there, he was legit. Had a great look, fantastic presentation (entrance, theme, etc...), was great in the ring for a long time and on top of everything, he was as tough as nails. (Finishing matches with a completely torn quad via walls of Jericho)

Amazing feuds with guys like Mankind, Rock, HBK, not just one, but two top stables in DX and Evolution.

I think he went on too long possibly and the McMahon/Helmsley era gave him far too much of an on-screen presence, but at his best he was phenomenal. Every bit a main event star.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:00 PM   #87
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As for a valid answer to the question, I always thought that Jeff Jarrett was overpushed everywhere he was. I found him so boring and average at almost every aspect of being a performer. It's hard to remember the good stuff.

Him being a main event wrestler in WCW is crazy to me to this day. I always felt that IC title level was more than he deserved for whatever it was he offered.

TNA had some great talent too, that should have been shining at his expense.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:07 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
Think people are being harsh on HHH in here. He had some awesome matches and feuds. At his peak, he was fantastic.

He has some great feuds on the rise to being a star and by the time he got there, he was legit. Had a great look, fantastic presentation (entrance, theme, etc...), was great in the ring for a long time and on top of everything, he was as tough as nails. (Finishing matches with a completely torn quad via walls of Jericho)

Amazing feuds with guys like Mankind, Rock, HBK, not just one, but two top stables in DX and Evolution.

I think he went on too long possibly and the McMahon/Helmsley era gave him far too much of an on-screen presence, but at his best he was phenomenal. Every bit a main event star.
Yep as I said, fantastic from Jan. 2000- WM X7. After that it was downhill, before that he was Mr. Midcard (and he deserved to be that). Don't get me wrong when he came back from the quad tear, every now and again he'd really deliver, but most of the time he wasn't that great and contributed to a strong decline.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:10 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I've got to back up Triple H. There was nothing about the guy that screamed "main event." And his run in the main event has actually been really underwhelming. I'm sure it was just coincidence, but I used to chuckle to myself when WrestleMania 23 stood out as such a successful WrestleMania, and it was the one without Triple H on it.

But sincerely, I don't think people get upset when he is not apart of something. I don't think they will avoid it just because he is on it, but this idea that he is some sort of draw card -- is it based on anything? You know, other than the WWE constantly telling you that he was one of the top stars of the Attitude era and is an ass-kicker, etc.

He's got to spray his stink all over everything too. He's wrestled The Undertaker at WrestleMania more times than Shawn Michaels did. Remember the Summer of Punk? "I've got an idea to help Cena as a babyface, Vince." "I've got an idea to help Roman as a babyface, Vince." "I've got an ideal to help Seth as a babyface, Vince." "I've got an idea to help Bryan as a babyface, Vince."

Fuck's sake, none of those guys were helped an ounce by Triple H. Batista is the one guy. And that came at the expense of Booker T, Rob Van Dam, Kane, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton and Chris Benoit. After building up that much tedium behind the Triple H empire, of course it's going to be cathartic to see him absolutely destroyed. Was the pay-off worth it?
lemme see

No.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:16 PM   #90
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I hated his feuds with Foley.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:23 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Swiss View Post
I hated his feuds with Foley.
how come?
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:23 PM   #92
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His feud with Mankind in 1997 was fun
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:25 PM   #93
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Btw WWF 1997>WWF 1998

1997 WWF was awesome.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:28 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post

1997 WWF was awesome.
Yes and no. Great stuff with Hart Foundation vs Austin. But MY GOD that mid card. What a fucking disaster. DOA, Los Boriquas, and the Nation. Gag me.

Though I guess Ken vs Vader trumps all when it comes down to it. Looking back, think DX is WAYYYYYY over rated... though Shawn vs Taker (including the intro of Kane) is pretty much one of the greatest things ever, plus Shawn was an immense heel.

But yeah Foley's feud with HHH in 97 was pretty damned good. Loved the cage match and the street fight at MSG. Though I've always preferred the RR 2000 street fight also at MSG.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:28 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Yep as I said, fantastic from Jan. 2000- WM X7. After that it was downhill, before that he was Mr. Midcard (and he deserved to be that). Don't get me wrong when he came back from the quad tear, every now and again he'd really deliver, but most of the time he wasn't that great and contributed to a strong decline.
Yep, agree 100%. And it's arguable HHH's ego started to cause a decline even before this. Didn't he refute the proposed Stephanie alignment with Angle? And isn't that when television ratings started to dip? Hmm.

And when talking about how fantastic he was from January 2000 -- he was already WWF Champion at this point. If we're talking undeserved pushes, what did he ever do to deserve that position? By the time you get to WrestleMania, HHH has been great for three months. But so was John Morrison for a period in 2010.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:31 PM   #96
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HHH is significant because he was pushed; he wasn't pushed because he was significant.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:31 PM   #97
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lol yeah that bullshit with Kurt and Steph (if the rumours are true) is just the lamest shit ever. Kurt and Steph would have been dynamite as a heel pairing, and THAT version of HHH would have been a perfect anti-hero to feud with them. But HHH (if the rumours are true) was very threatened by Kurt.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:32 PM   #98
Noid
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And by The Rock. And by Jericho. And even by Ric Flair (again, if you believe rumors).
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:34 PM   #99
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And Jeff Jarrett is a good pick. Whenever the dude got near a World Title. Okay, I could maybe buy him as NWA Champion in TNA when they were just getting started. They had no one else and he knew he would turn up for work at least. But there was no reason for him to have such an association with the belt.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:37 PM   #100
Bad News Gertner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Yes and no. Great stuff with Hart Foundation vs Austin. But MY GOD that mid card. What a fucking disaster. DOA, Los Boriquas, and the Nation. Gag me.

Though I guess Ken vs Vader trumps all when it comes down to it. Looking back, think DX is WAYYYYYY over rated... though Shawn vs Taker (including the intro of Kane) is pretty much one of the greatest things ever, plus Shawn was an immense heel.

But yeah Foley's feud with HHH in 97 was pretty damned good. Loved the cage match and the street fight at MSG. Though I've always preferred the RR 2000 street fight also at MSG.
The WWF mid card only started to get good towards very late 98.

Mankind vs HHH
Goldust vs Brian Pillman
Austin vs Hart Foundation
HBK vs Hart Foundation
Taker vs Mankind
Bulldog and Owen's peak as a tag team
Teams like Furnas and Lafon, Headbangers, Godwins, Road Warriors
Shamrock at his peak

Loved that stuff
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:38 PM   #101
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The Hart Foundation vs DX/U.S.A is my favourite feud of all time.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:39 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
The WWF mid card only started to get good towards very late 98.

Mankind vs HHH
Goldust vs Brian Pillman
Austin vs Hart Foundation
HBK vs Hart Foundation
Taker vs Mankind
Bulldog and Owen's peak as a tag team
Teams like Furnas and Lafon, Headbangers, Godwins, Road Warriors
Shamrock at his peak

Loved that stuff
Yeah I'd agree with this but Furnas and LaFon really barely did anything at all. Calgary Stampede PPV in 1997 is fucking amazing though.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:40 PM   #103
Dastardly Dale Newstead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
The Hart Foundation vs DX/U.S.A is my favourite feud of all time.
mine too. But I think I preferred Bret/Hart Foundation Vs Austin.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:40 PM   #104
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They had some good matches. I remember a great match they had with Bulldog and Owen on RAW.

Plus the second greatest tag team ever the New Blackjacks were running wild
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:42 PM   #105
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Blue chipper Rocky Maivia
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:50 PM   #106
Noid
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People were really excited about Furnas and LaFon coming in, weren't they? I watched their debut. They seemed good in the ring, but just like they were "guys." They were big in Japan, weren't they?
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:52 PM   #107
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Yes to all of the above
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:06 PM   #108
Dastardly Dale Newstead
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also the headbangers stank
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:08 PM   #109
Lock Jaw
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I held a grudge/didn't like Stone Cold his whole career (except for when he went heel) due to being #TeamBret
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:15 PM   #110
Swiss
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That's hardcore.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:18 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
also the headbangers stank
I definitely disagree with you on that
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:36 PM   #112
Maluco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Yep as I said, fantastic from Jan. 2000- WM X7. After that it was downhill, before that he was Mr. Midcard (and he deserved to be that). Don't get me wrong when he came back from the quad tear, every now and again he'd really deliver, but most of the time he wasn't that great and contributed to a strong decline.
Yeah, was going to mention the quad tear. Never quite had the consistency as a performer after that. It's just a pity because I think his peak is forgotten because of the weaker stuff that came afterwards.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:37 PM   #113
Maluco
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Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
The Hart Foundation vs DX/U.S.A is my favourite feud of all time.
I second this, absolutely loved this whole thing.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:32 PM   #114
Anybody Thrilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
I held a grudge/didn't like Stone Cold his whole career (except for when he went heel) due to being #TeamBret
Funny thing is, Stone Cold never even beat Bret.

Amazing feud, that one.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:51 PM   #115
Dastardly Dale Newstead
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Bret used that line one time in WCW. "I BEAT STEVE AUSTIN EVERY TIME I FOUGHT HIM"
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:52 PM   #116
Anybody Thrilla
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Quote:
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I second this, absolutely loved this whole thing.
Thirded
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:53 PM   #117
Anybody Thrilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Bret used that line one time in WCW. "I BEAT STEVE AUSTIN EVERY TIME I FOUGHT HIM"
And that's when they realized wins and losses don't matter.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:57 PM   #118
Bad News Gertner
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I don't think non-Canadian get how friggen over the Hart Foundation vs America/HBK/Stone Cold feud was in Canada. Lol Canadians hate Americans and this was our chance to vocalize it.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:58 PM   #119
Dastardly Dale Newstead
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Fourthed tbh
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:58 PM   #120
Dastardly Dale Newstead
Soundly defeated RP
 
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Posts: 25,366
Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
I don't think non-Canadian get how friggen over the Hart Foundation vs America/HBK/Stone Cold feud was in Canada. Lol Canadians hate Americans and this was our chance to vocalize it.
the one and only time Gertner moderately appreciated the Hitman.
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