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Old 11-28-2015, 09:03 PM   #321
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WCW really should have just let DX roll into the arena with a fucking tank live on Nitro. Would have ensured 100% viewership for that particular segment.

But the fact that WWE acts like that was the turning point of the Monday Night Wars is comical.
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:26 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Now you just sound dumb. There is more money in Sting than Booker and Goldberg combined. Explain how Sting beating Hunter hurts the money match. If the money match was Rollins, a Sting win at Mania would have made more sense to have Sting built up for Rollins.
I've explained this to CyNick COUNTLESS times, and he doesn't get it. There are many ways to skin a cat, but CyNick just can't wrap his head around how making money off Sting while that program is there before moving onto Triple H vs. Rollins makes as much sense, probably more, than Triple H beating Sting and basically using him as an enhancement to build to a potentially big match later down the track between two guys that won't even mention Sting in their feud.
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:28 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
How do you know that was the motivation behind the booking?

If Sting going over was the right call for business, why would Vince turn down that money?
EGO.
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:30 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
The only people who would be looking to buy Sting masks are likely now in their 30s or 40s. So I'm guessing sales would be minimal. Hard to imagine a new flock of kids seeing 50+ year old Sting and saying "thats my guy".

Gotta let go of your childhood hero man.
Hmm, I wonder if any of that is down to HOW THEY HANDLED FUCKING STING?!?!?!
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:31 PM   #325
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This whole "WWE does shit to dampen someone; LOOK AT HOW DAMP THEY ARE!" bullshit you do, Cynick, is getting boring. Change your gimmick up, man.
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:36 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
WCW really should have just let DX roll into the arena with a fucking tank live on Nitro. Would have ensured 100% viewership for that particular segment.

But the fact that WWE acts like that was the turning point of the Monday Night Wars is comical.
They should have sent Meng and Barbarian out there to confront them. Worst case scenario, you lose Meng and Barbarian on manslaughter charges.
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:48 PM   #327
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They should have sent Meng and Barbarian out there to confront them. Worst case scenario, you lose Meng and Barbarian on manslaughter charges.
As if the cops could arrest them.
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:51 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
Best part of this McMyth was WWE supposedly told them to bail if WCW sent Meng after them. Even the WWE feared Meng more than they did WCW.
Hell , WCW kept Meng around for years because they were too scared to fire him.
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:56 PM   #329
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The WWE should put out a "Legend of Haku" special on the WWE Network.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:02 PM   #330
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Wonder if Haku could still easily fuck people up to this day.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:20 PM   #331
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Now he just scares them into buying a car, even if they were bringing someone else to buy a car.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:29 PM   #332
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I could be and have been wrong before, but I have often heard claims that WM3 attendance numbers were overinflated.
drastically
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Old 11-29-2015, 01:32 PM   #333
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CyNick, I'm trying to think more scenarios for you too book. The only thing I can think of now is Montrel. I'm not trying to beating a dead horse just want to see how you would handle it.

So let's go back in time. Will keep every situation the sam. Bret refuses to do the job, and Vince is worried what Bret will do with the title... The only thing that we are going to change you can't stop the match and "Screw Bret." How do you handle the situation?
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:44 PM   #334
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If you can't screw Bret I guess you let him show up on Nitro with the WWF Heavyweight Championship. Let's see what the CyNick has to say.
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Old 11-29-2015, 03:11 PM   #335
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Or you have a verbal agreement with him to do it the next night to another opponent. I don't think there was any risk of Bret showing up on Nitro with the belt.

Was it childish that he didn't want to drop it to HBK? Yes. Did he have his reasons not to? Also, yes. But he would have dropped it the next night on RAW to anyone else. It shouldn't have been the big drama that it was, but people love a good drama!
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Old 11-29-2015, 03:56 PM   #336
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Who would you have the other opponent be on Raw? Couldnt see it being Stone Cold being IC champ but maybe Kane who had just beat Mankind. Kane could have held the title til the next PPV where Shawn takes it off him.
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Old 11-29-2015, 04:58 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Okay you are legit just a massive troll at this point. McMyths are actual myths perpetuated by the WWE that factually just aren't true. Not reported by the dirt sheets, just shit that doesn't add up. It can be verified just by watching their own product.

McMyth#1) DX "invading" WCW some how was the apex of the Monday Night Wars. Watch it. Nothing happened. Nobody gave a shit. It was a silly crappy angle. And yet, they perpetuate this nonsense in every fucking video about DX. That's not dirtsheet reporting, that's just people using their brains.

If you wish to be an actual contributor to this forum and not have people disparage you, maybe interact like less of a twat, and be smart like you're capable of being.


For now, I am retiring from CyNick world because you talk at me, not to me. Wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you're being too much of a knob. Keep in mind I remember your initial run on the forum where you were being a troll then too, just on exactly the opposite end with pretty much the polar opposite bullshit arguments which made no sense then. So pretty much, you're parodying yourself, and it's getting to the point of silliness.
I'll try to carry on without you Dale. It will be challenging, but I must try.
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Old 11-29-2015, 04:59 PM   #338
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Quote:
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Its about damn time. The money is not in Sting/HHH if your just going to have Sting job. There is more money in jobbing Sting to Taker, Cena, or even Wyatt. HHH could have jobbed to Sting then had Rollins beat Sting to start that tension between the 2. The point is Vince has left money off the table with Sting and you can't deny that. I don't know if he does it on purpose or he has just lost touch but he has a trend of burying WCW guys. Before you spout off about WM20 think about when Eddie, Benoit, Jericho, and Big Show all jumped ship to WWF.

Having HHH lose to Sting hurts Hunter's credibility. Who do you think will work more matches in future Manias, Sting or Hunter?
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:00 PM   #339
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Or, before Vince, wrestling events was only taking in smoky bars and high school gyms. However, even under Vince Sr. they were headlining MSG with Bruno and many territories were holding big shows in sold out baseball stadiums.

Or WM3 was the most heavily attended WWF event of all time. It was actually Summerslam '92 in Wembly.
Are you from somewhere in Great Britain?
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:01 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
WCW really should have just let DX roll into the arena with a fucking tank live on Nitro. Would have ensured 100% viewership for that particular segment.

But the fact that WWE acts like that was the turning point of the Monday Night Wars is comical.
Turning point is a stretch, but they were there on WCW turf, and the fans saw them as big stars. So it was something.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:06 PM   #341
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I've explained this to CyNick COUNTLESS times, and he doesn't get it. There are many ways to skin a cat, but CyNick just can't wrap his head around how making money off Sting while that program is there before moving onto Triple H vs. Rollins makes as much sense, probably more, than Triple H beating Sting and basically using him as an enhancement to build to a potentially big match later down the track between two guys that won't even mention Sting in their feud.
Most people on here cant see the larger picture.

Sting vs Hunter at Mania was used to sell future Monday Night Wars programming on WWE Network. Thats why they involved NWO (representing WCW and DX representing WWE). From thats standpoint alone it made sense for Hunter to win, because WWE won the war.

BEYOND THAT, you want to keep Hunter strong because he's going to work with Rollins at some point. And further, the story they were telling between Hunter (the teacher) and Rollins (the student), it hurts the story if Hunter looks weak right off the bat.

I personally dont think there was huge money in other Sting matches. I could be wrong, but the guy was in TNA for years, and its not like TNA ever had a really successful PPV that he was a part of. So I dont see where the evidence is that Sting was big time player. Thats the disconnect with some of you guys, you see Sting on the level of guys like Brock, Rock or Hunter, where I dont think the average fan does.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:14 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLegend View Post
CyNick, I'm trying to think more scenarios for you too book. The only thing I can think of now is Montrel. I'm not trying to beating a dead horse just want to see how you would handle it.

So let's go back in time. Will keep every situation the sam. Bret refuses to do the job, and Vince is worried what Bret will do with the title... The only thing that we are going to change you can't stop the match and "Screw Bret." How do you handle the situation?
People will just roll their eyes, so I probably shouldnt bother, but I feel Vince handled that masterfully.

To me, you couldnt let Bret walk out of Survivor Series as champion. I'm sure we have all heard interviews with Bret, and realize he takes the business and his character really seriously. Maybe too seriously. As a result, it clouded his judgment and he acted selfishly and refusing to drop to Shawn in Montreal.

From Vince's POV, you have Bret going to Turner, and you have this big grudge match booked. Standard wrestling booking is when a guy is leaving a territory, he does the favours. It was perfectly reasonable for Vince to EXPECT Bret to put over someone of his choosing. Bret and Shawn were rivals, and if Bret is leaving, you want Shawn to look like the superior talent. Bret acted childish, and refused, so Vince was backed into a corner.

The epic thing was Vince had the foresight to put himself on TV as an authority figure in the angle. This was perfect, because it set up the next decade plus of TV as him as the evil authority figure. Really smart booking, a genius move.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:15 PM   #343
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Quote:
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Or you have a verbal agreement with him to do it the next night to another opponent. I don't think there was any risk of Bret showing up on Nitro with the belt.

Was it childish that he didn't want to drop it to HBK? Yes. Did he have his reasons not to? Also, yes. But he would have dropped it the next night on RAW to anyone else. It shouldn't have been the big drama that it was, but people love a good drama!
The next night TV was in Canada, whats different between dropping on Sunday or Monday? The issue was dropping to Shawn and in Canada. On both issues, Bret acted unprofessional.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:16 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Who would you have the other opponent be on Raw? Couldnt see it being Stone Cold being IC champ but maybe Kane who had just beat Mankind. Kane could have held the title til the next PPV where Shawn takes it off him.
Austin would have been too early. They wanted to build up to Austin winning at Mania. Having him win randomly on RAW would have been very WCW.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:45 PM   #345
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That's why I said I couldnt see it being Stone Cold.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:46 PM   #346
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That's why I said I couldnt see it being Stone Cold.
I wasnt disagreeing, just piling on the point you made.
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Old 11-29-2015, 06:10 PM   #347
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People will just roll their eyes, so I probably shouldnt bother, but I feel Vince handled that masterfully.

To me, you couldnt let Bret walk out of Survivor Series as champion. I'm sure we have all heard interviews with Bret, and realize he takes the business and his character really seriously. Maybe too seriously. As a result, it clouded his judgment and he acted selfishly and refusing to drop to Shawn in Montreal.

From Vince's POV, you have Bret going to Turner, and you have this big grudge match booked. Standard wrestling booking is when a guy is leaving a territory, he does the favours. It was perfectly reasonable for Vince to EXPECT Bret to put over someone of his choosing. Bret and Shawn were rivals, and if Bret is leaving, you want Shawn to look like the superior talent. Bret acted childish, and refused, so Vince was backed into a corner.

The epic thing was Vince had the foresight to put himself on TV as an authority figure in the angle. This was perfect, because it set up the next decade plus of TV as him as the evil authority figure. Really smart booking, a genius move.
I think Vince handled it the best way possible way to especially considering how every turned out for WWE.

I'm doing this in total fantasy world which is going to be unrealistic. I would do Money in the bank/WM 9 style.

I would end the Bret/HBK match in a double DQ, and then I would have someone let's say Owen Hart (it can be anyone I don't care) challenge Bret after the match, and then Owen wins the belt. However he loses it at the next PPV to Shawn, and maybe not that much of the future is changed.

That way everything ends up amicable between Vince and Bret. It's unrealistic, but I think it kind of works.
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Old 11-29-2015, 06:11 PM   #348
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Ok Cynick whats your opinion on the New Day? They've stated on Jericho's podcast that they have creative control and the New Day we see now is NOT what Vince had in mind.(obviously)He saw them as babyface's with a stereotypical(basically a trio of gospel preachers) gimmick and according to them he isn't all that happy and he was surprised that it didn't pan out(which kinda backs up the whole Vince is old and outta touch thing)
Last edited by KIRA; 11-30-2015 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:07 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
Ok Cynick whats your opinion on the New Day? They've stated on Jericho's podcast that they have creative control and the New Day we see now is NOT what Vince had in mind.(obviously)He saw them as babyface's with a stereotypical gimmick and according to them he isn't all that happy and he was surprised that it didn't pan out(which kinda backs up the whole Vince is old and outta touch thing)
According to Cynick, it doesn't matter what New Day has stated. If it doesn't come from HHH or Vince, it isn't credible and likely isn't true.

In any event, Cynick thinks that Vince is a creative genius who, despite his age is more in tune with what makes great entertainment than even the fans are. In this scenario, Vince's creative genius, etc. is evidenced by not coming up with a successful gimmick for New Day on his own, but instead letting New Day come up with their own creative.
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:46 AM   #350
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How I would have handled Montreal

Austin/Owen have their match as it went down and Bret cuts a promo on Owen saying how he let his entire family and country down. Owen tells him to fuck off and challenges him to put the belt on the line against him right now! Owen wins clean and is the WWE Champion. HBK and Bret then have their match without the title.

HBK wins the title on Raw from Owen. Giving Owen a deserved title reign and respect. If Bret wouldn't job to Owen then he should be the one who died.
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:52 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ View Post
According to Cynick, it doesn't matter what New Day has stated. If it doesn't come from HHH or Vince, it isn't credible and likely isn't true.

In any event, Cynick thinks that Vince is a creative genius who, despite his age is more in tune with what makes great entertainment than even the fans are. In this scenario, Vince's creative genius, etc. is evidenced by not coming up with a successful gimmick for New Day on his own, but instead letting New Day come up with their own creative.
They also confirmed (without actually saying it)what we've always known Vince doesn't like ideas that don't come from him no matter how good they are.
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:00 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
Ok Cynick whats your opinion on the New Day? They've stated on Jericho's podcast that they have creative control and the New Day we see now is NOT what Vince had in mind.(obviously)He saw them as babyface's with a stereotypical(basically a trio of gospel preachers) gimmick and according to them he isn't all that happy and he was surprised that it didn't pan out(which kinda backs up the whole Vince is old and outta touch thing)
We've already addressed this. Cynicks talked to Vince and this is actually what he wanted because he is in fact a man of the people
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:04 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post

The epic thing was Vince had the foresight to put himself on TV as an authority figure in the angle. This was perfect, because it set up the next decade plus of TV as him as the evil authority figure. Really smart booking, a genius move.
Minus him trying to be a babyface after it al happened. No foresight but stil smart to go heel when he realized the fans didn't buy him as a face
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:13 AM   #354
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I think these thoughts from Mick Foley echo our statements. I mean I know Mick is nothing compared to Vince and HHH, and has never accomplished anything in the business. And yeah, I don't think anybody cares about swearing and cussing and attitude era raunchiness but realistically they've killed a lot of the art behind it. I've heard Bautista echo these statements too. Listen to what the boys say, they don't think it's all sunshine and lollipops either.


FINAL RAW FOR FOLEY?
WWE is at a real crossroads. Allow me to paraphrase Albert Einstein, who said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results". Wrestling historians can argue about when the ‪#‎AttitudeEra‬ in wrestling officially began. But for me, it will always be at a meeting called by Mr McMahon in the Spring of 1997, where he admitted that what had worked for them for so long in the past (I interpreted that to mean one-dimensional characters that tended to be job-related) was no longer working, and that if they were going to survive, the wrestlers themselves were going to have to step up, and help create those dimensions that would establish the emotional bond between the wrestlers and the fans - part of the lifeblood of professional wrestling.
Today's WWE Superstars (I'm including the women here, since the term "Diva" had its time, and that time is done) are at a distinct disadvantage in some ways. They can't flip birds, and use the colorful language. They can't bleed - even when the situation seems ripe for it. Man, Roman Reigns life would be so much easier if he could survive vicious assaults - and be left bloodied, but unbowed - the way guys in my era did. But all the blood, the language and the violence paled in comparison to the real secret weapon of the Attitude Era; FREEDOM! The freedom to CREATE..the freedom to TRY... the freedom to FAIL - the idea that going down swinging (I hope I'm not losing you guys in all the non-baseball playing countries) was almost as important as hitting the ball out of the park - as long as you took your best swings. There's a difference between playing to win, and playing not to lose: one breeds confidence, the other breeds fear.It's the difference between cutting the type of promos Stone Cold Steve Austin and Dwayne The Rock Johnson gave, and the cookie-cutter approach all too often employed these days by WWE creative. One style allowed for creativity and emotion. The other calls for memorization and recitation.
I hope I don't sound like I'm picking on WWE. There is a big part of me that loves this company, and always will. Why else would I be up at 4:15 am, writing things that are likely to banish me deeper and deeper into the WWE doghouse? One of my favorite wrestlers proposed a storyline that would allow me a four of five week storyline that would allow me to dig in deep, and swing for the fences - and in the process, maybe advance a few of the super-talented but underutilized athletes on the roster. I would love to do it....but I doubt it's going to happen. After all, I might want to do something crazy like go out there without a script, and try to create some real emotion - in other words, the type of thing that saved WWE in the late 90's.
The talent pool has never been deeper. But the creative flow is stagnant...and it's been stinking for a while. I quoted Einstein to begin this thing. Let me conclude with the immortal words of Owen Heart: "Enough's enough: it's time for a change!"
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:32 AM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ View Post
According to Cynick, it doesn't matter what New Day has stated. If it doesn't come from HHH or Vince, it isn't credible and likely isn't true.

In any event, Cynick thinks that Vince is a creative genius who, despite his age is more in tune with what makes great entertainment than even the fans are. In this scenario, Vince's creative genius, etc. is evidenced by not coming up with a successful gimmick for New Day on his own, but instead letting New Day come up with their own creative.
I think I'll be at a loss for words if the response I get is something along the lines of "See Vince is still a genius because he knew enough to trust New Day with their own creative output."
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:19 PM   #356
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Minus him trying to be a babyface after it al happened. No foresight but stil smart to go heel when he realized the fans didn't buy him as a face
That promo was designed to babyface the direction the company was going, not Vince himself.
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:35 PM   #357
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People will just roll their eyes, so I probably shouldnt bother, but I feel Vince handled that masterfully.

To me, you couldnt let Bret walk out of Survivor Series as champion. I'm sure we have all heard interviews with Bret, and realize he takes the business and his character really seriously. Maybe too seriously. As a result, it clouded his judgment and he acted selfishly and refusing to drop to Shawn in Montreal.

From Vince's POV, you have Bret going to Turner, and you have this big grudge match booked. Standard wrestling booking is when a guy is leaving a territory, he does the favours. It was perfectly reasonable for Vince to EXPECT Bret to put over someone of his choosing. Bret and Shawn were rivals, and if Bret is leaving, you want Shawn to look like the superior talent. Bret acted childish, and refused, so Vince was backed into a corner.
I think this was the post where you jumped the shark, for me anyway
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:48 PM   #358
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I think I'll be at a loss for words if the response I get is something along the lines of "See Vince is still a genius because he knew enough to trust New Day with their own creative output."
I started listening to the Jericho podcast with New Day that some people have brought up. Haven't got through the whole thing yet.

Sounds like Vince thought the group had potential and was stuck for a gimmick. He came up with the preacher idea and thought it would get over as a babyface act. It was working in some towns, but the smark cities they were a heel, which started to carry over. They got a really strong heel reaction the day after Mania, so Vince agreed to go heel with the act.

The takeaway for me is Vince had the vision that the three guys would work as an act. He thought a bunch of black guys spreading positivity would catch on as a babyface act. He then listened to the crowd and went in the other direction for the time being. The ironic thing is New Day will likely end up as babyfaces, so Vince will be ultimately proven correct. The only difference is I think the act will have a little more of an edge than Vince originally expected. The cool thing about listening to those guys is they personify what Vince has been challenging the talent to do. Take an interest in your characters direction, and really own it. Makes me like these guys even more, and reiterates what I've believed, which is the system is there to make stars, and works when the talent is motivated and skilled.
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:50 PM   #359
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I think this was the post where you jumped the shark, for me anyway
He was backed into a corner

You have your champion leaving and refusing to put over the guy you want to be the heir apparent.

Nash put over HBK and Taker on his way out. Why couldn't Bret put over HBK?

Bret left Vince with no choice. Well, no good choice anyway.
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:56 PM   #360
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there's an awful lot of information you're leaving out right there which you probably know and aren't adding for the sake of "doing your thing". If that isn't the case, you should probably look into that
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