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View Poll Results: Are you a fan of the World Heavyweight Championship?
Yes 10 38.46%
No 1 3.85%
It's secondary to the WWE title and that's how it is going to be for the rest of eternity 14 53.85%
Other 1 3.85%
Voters: 26. You must log in or register to vote on this poll.

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Old 07-21-2013, 04:22 PM   #1
Guru Dave
 
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The declining prestige of the World Heavyweight Championship

As a huge fan of the World Heavyweight Championship, I would love to see it at an equal footing with the WWE Championship like before.






It has been over three years since a World Heavyweight Championship match main-evented / closed a pay-per-view. The last time it preceded a WWE Championship match was back in 2012 at the Elimination Chamber ppv, where Daniel Bryan successfully defended the belt in an Elimination Chamber match.







However, the match did not close the show as it was followed by a United States title match and an Ambulance match that featured Kane and John Cena. The last time the belt closed a show was at Hell in a Cell 2010 where Kane defeated the Undertaker inside the Hell in a Cell structure in order to retain the title.





Ever since 2011 / Edge's final reign as World Heavyweight Champion, the belt has found itself in the midcard or opening bouts at pay-per-views with rare appearances in main event programs.


Over the years, the pecking order was made clear on the programming. Not to mention, the closing segment from last week's RAW where Alberto Del Rio was a possible contender for John Cena's WWE Championship and many "Champion versus Champion" matches where the WWE Champion would go over the World Heavyweight Champion on almost all occasions.



(skip to 6:50)

Discuss and share your opinions on the declining status of the World Heavyweight Championship. Talk about future possibilities like unification, retirement, comeback etc.


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Old 07-21-2013, 04:25 PM   #2
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The prestige usually follows what brand the title is on. When it was Raw exclusive it was the premier title and seemed to mean more than the WWE Championship. It all depends on who is carrying the tilte and how the matches are. Right now they have a strong champion and challenger in Del Rio and Ziggler and have had some great matches. It's still going to be second fiddle to the end of eternity since the brand split is gone which is the way it always should have been.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:37 PM   #3
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I distinctly remember when CM Punk had it on the flagship show - Monday Night RAW where he never got a chance to main event a pay-per-view. However, he main evented three consecutive pay-per-views as champion on Smackdown.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:42 PM   #4
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Punk only won that first World Title just so the belt could stay exclusive to Raw. They needed the belt off Edge.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:53 PM   #5
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I hear you. He did hold on to the strap for 3-odd months before not losing it to Jericho at Unforgiven. They clearly didn't have an idea as to what they wanted to do with him.
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:03 PM   #6
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Money in the Bank has played a huge part in decreasing the value of the belt, since they use it to attempt to elevate a wrestler from the midcard to the upper midcard/main event rather than building them up first, and then giving them the briefcase when they're ready. Even more-so since it became two MitB cases per year and not just the one at Wrestlemania. Just looked at the list of winners then and I'd say only Kane was a legit Main Eventer who cashed in on the WHC belt, and even that's pretty debatable give how much he flip flopped around the card in the years prior to winning it. Punk, for all he's worth now was probably given it a little too early in his career, although it's obviously not hurt him, he wasn't a main eventer at that point in time. Ditto Daniel Bryan.

Now the current holder is Sandow, who while great, is no doubt a midcarder and has been for pretty much his entire time in WWE. It's lazy booking by WWE really to try and make a main eventer by giving them the case. Either that or they probably just don't really care and they just see a potential storyline to go with in the short term and work out the rest as they go along.
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:38 PM   #7
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Triple H should return full time and be determined to bring back prestige to the World Heavyweight Championship. Then, you build up Dolph or Cody Rhodes to beat him for the title at WrestleMania XXX. I really want to see Ziggler/HHH or Rhodes/HHH.
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:43 PM   #8
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Money in the Bank has played a huge part in decreasing the value of the belt, since they use it to attempt to elevate a wrestler from the midcard to the upper midcard/main event rather than building them up first, and then giving them the briefcase when they're ready. Even more-so since it became two MitB cases per year and not just the one at Wrestlemania. Just looked at the list of winners then and I'd say only Kane was a legit Main Eventer who cashed in on the WHC belt, and even that's pretty debatable give how much he flip flopped around the card in the years prior to winning it. Punk, for all he's worth now was probably given it a little too early in his career, although it's obviously not hurt him, he wasn't a main eventer at that point in time. Ditto Daniel Bryan.

Now the current holder is Sandow, who while great, is no doubt a midcarder and has been for pretty much his entire time in WWE. It's lazy booking by WWE really to try and make a main eventer by giving them the case. Either that or they probably just don't really care and they just see a potential storyline to go with in the short term and work out the rest as they go along.
Excellent point.

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Triple H should return full time and be determined to bring back prestige to the World Heavyweight Championship. Then, you build up Dolph or Cody Rhodes to beat him for the title at WrestleMania XXX. I really want to see Ziggler/HHH or Rhodes/HHH.
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:46 PM   #9
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Holy shit, that is one hell of a 6-man tag team match. I need to find the entire match.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:03 PM   #10
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other is the best option here.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:50 PM   #11
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R-V-D can give it that high it needs.
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:04 PM   #12
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"Does anyone get as high as Rob Van Dam?"
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:22 PM   #13
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:27 PM   #14
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I didn't help that after Kane won the title the WWE flat out said it was second to the WWE title.
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:33 PM   #15
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Triple H holding it pretty much ruined it right there
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:55 PM   #16
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I didn't help that after Kane won the title the WWE flat out said it was second to the WWE title.
When? Please elaborate, thanks.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:48 AM   #17
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I like what the World Heavyweight Title is actually. I still consider it a World title, but it is secondary to WWE Title.

To me, it is a title that WWE can give to guys who are on the cusp of being a Main Eventer, and see if they can be a legitimate champion. If they can hold their own as WHC, they can show that they are the real deal.

It is almost like a World Title where you can test guys out with.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:54 AM   #18
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So it's basically like the Intercontinental title.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:15 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Iginfest View Post
Money in the Bank has played a huge part in decreasing the value of the belt, since they use it to attempt to elevate a wrestler from the midcard to the upper midcard/main event rather than building them up first, and then giving them the briefcase when they're ready. Even more-so since it became two MitB cases per year and not just the one at Wrestlemania. Just looked at the list of winners then and I'd say only Kane was a legit Main Eventer who cashed in on the WHC belt, and even that's pretty debatable give how much he flip flopped around the card in the years prior to winning it. Punk, for all he's worth now was probably given it a little too early in his career, although it's obviously not hurt him, he wasn't a main eventer at that point in time. Ditto Daniel Bryan.

Now the current holder is Sandow, who while great, is no doubt a midcarder and has been for pretty much his entire time in WWE. It's lazy booking by WWE really to try and make a main eventer by giving them the case. Either that or they probably just don't really care and they just see a potential storyline to go with in the short term and work out the rest as they go along.
It's not the MITB that's to blame its the booking before/after they win it. I enjoy the whole cashing in part of it, I think it adds a unique twist and can be used to solve booking problems/injury crises but hot shotting a guy into the main event and then wondering why he isn't over and blaming them is the real issue. Kayfabe wise you have a full calendar year to cash in so use some of that time to advance them up the pecking order slowly, having them being the briefcase holder already gives them an instant bump and a certain level of recognition above their status so why not build on that first.

It's the same thing with the title, it comes down to how its booked not the placement on the card. Look at RVDs run with the ECW TV belt, it was the recognized secondary title but the way it was booked it rivalled or exceeded the prestige of their world title.
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:48 AM   #20
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With the brand split no more, it will always be the second title behind the WWE title, the problem is that it is SO far behind it at times it may as well be a mid card title. I tend to see it as a sort of #1 contender title for the WWE title. Punk won the World title before being given the WWE title, possibly the same will happen with Bryan.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:44 AM   #21
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It only looks good when a big muscley guy holds it.

Looks weird on teh midgets like Punk and Bryan.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:52 AM   #22
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When? Please elaborate, thanks.
I will look for it when I get home, can't find it on youtube now.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:59 PM   #23
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Personally, I think we've exhausted this topic over the course of the last few months and there's not much else to add.
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:07 PM   #24
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I would appreciate a Noid post.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:38 PM   #25
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It hasn't had much of a purpose since the end of the brand split, and probably a few years prior when they stopped having brand-specific PPVs.

I'd be cool with just the IC and WWE titles again (and tag and divas obv), at least it would mean a hell of a lot more if someone wins it. Think of the PRESTIIIIIIIGE.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:49 PM   #26
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I actually like the idea of Triple H winning the title again, if just to drop it off to Damien Sandow, Cody Rhodes or Dolph Ziggler very shortly thereafter. It would get people interested in the championship. Brock Lesnar winning the title would also not be a disaster. I'd have gone with Daniel Bryan as World Heavyweight Champion until he became a lock for the WWE Championship match at SummerSlam.

With the brand split essentially becoming non-existent, the World Heavyweight Title finds it even harder to find prestige. It's still sold as a World Championship, and I am grateful for that, but it kind of doesn't make sense. There should only be one.

Creatively, I would not mind it if Vickie Guerrero, in an attempt to establish herself as the greatest General Manager of all-time, signed Alberto Del Rio to an exclusive SmackDown contract and ensured that all challengers for the World Heavyweight Title must be SmackDown-exclusive talent. Dolph Ziggler feels like he has something to prove against Del Rio still? Sign on the dotted line and become a blue brand exclusive guy. Vickie could sign Damien Sandow to an exclusive contract and then dangle a shot at Sandow's briefcase in front of Cody Rhodes if he signs an exclusive SD contact, as well. Christian could sign on for "one more match."

That's just in my dream world where the brand extension comes back. I loved the draft and such. I thought it was good for keeping talent separate.
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:51 AM   #27
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I do like it but that doesn't mean I always care about it. Think the last time I gave a shit about it was 2010, when Kane had a nice run with it.
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Old 06-15-2017, 04:38 AM   #28
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I miss the big gold belt. The Universal title doesn't do anything for me.
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:16 AM   #29
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My views on the World Championship have changed so much over the years. I used to be a lot more naive and didn't really engage with the problem properly. And it can really be solved by looking back at the last sentence of this post: the World Championship. You can't have two.

Being the World Champion is the answer to the question "Who is the best in the world?". You cannot have two answers to that question. If you do, then what you really have are contenders. They need to fight to crown a champion. It really is that simple. Brock Lesnar -- god that he is -- cannot be considered a true World Champion until he squashes Jinder Mahal for that belt.

By the end of the World Heavyweight Championship's tenure in WWE, it was being ignored when the title histories of many wrestlers were given on WWE television. How often did the commentators talk about Daniel Bryan's World Heavyweight Championship run? Or CM Punk's three World Heavyweight Championship runs. In fact, the WWE ignored WWE Title reigns each man had -- the first one for Punk and the first two for Bryan.

They will put either belt on anybody and therefore there is no suspense in who gets it. They've watered down their greatest tool for storytelling.
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Old 06-16-2017, 06:12 AM   #30
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I don't understand the "Universal Championship" moniker. I thought Mike Tyson was already the reigning, defending champion of the universe, but maybe I missed something.
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Old 06-16-2017, 06:28 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
My views on the World Championship have changed so much over the years. I used to be a lot more naive and didn't really engage with the problem properly. And it can really be solved by looking back at the last sentence of this post: the World Championship. You can't have two.

Being the World Champion is the answer to the question "Who is the best in the world?". You cannot have two answers to that question. If you do, then what you really have are contenders. They need to fight to crown a champion. It really is that simple. Brock Lesnar -- god that he is -- cannot be considered a true World Champion until he squashes Jinder Mahal for that belt.

By the end of the World Heavyweight Championship's tenure in WWE, it was being ignored when the title histories of many wrestlers were given on WWE television. How often did the commentators talk about Daniel Bryan's World Heavyweight Championship run? Or CM Punk's three World Heavyweight Championship runs. In fact, the WWE ignored WWE Title reigns each man had -- the first one for Punk and the first two for Bryan.

They will put either belt on anybody and therefore there is no suspense in who gets it. They've watered down their greatest tool for storytelling.
It bothers me when they refer to Randy Orton as a former 13-time WWE Champion. Motherfucker is a 9-time WWE Champion and a 4-time World Heavyweight Champion. Same goes for Dolphin.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:32 AM   #32
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I'd be fine with Raw and SmackDown having their own World Championship if they were truly treated like separate, competing promotions. In the first brand split they went to great lengths to have the two rosters never interact aside from the Royal Rumble for a few years.

But it's dumb as fuck seeing the brands promote what the other show is doing. It kills the immersion that they are actually competing.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:55 AM   #33
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The only way it MIGHT have been okay to have the two titles is if the brand split stuck the first time around. Now it's just a muddled mess and neither title feels like it has a clear history to build prestige off of.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:04 PM   #34
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They should be two COMPLETELY separate entities if each is going to have a World Title. But considering they both exist on the USA Network and promote each other, it's just counterproductive. Imagine being a new fan just coming into wrestling and trying to wrap your head around that.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:36 PM   #35
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Universal title is fucking dumb. WCW belt will always be the best looking title. Classic never dies, bring it back.
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Old 06-18-2017, 12:12 AM   #36
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WM4 to WM14 is the best belt. They shouldn't bring it back though because nobody is worthy of it.
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Old 06-23-2017, 07:44 AM   #37
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Would like to see Brock Lesnar with an IWGP style belt. That would be pretty.
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Old 06-23-2017, 07:53 AM   #38
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I remember when Kevin Owens won the Universal title, he was trying to justify the win as if he won the WWE Championship same as Shawn Michaels
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Old 06-26-2017, 06:21 AM   #39
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Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Jericho standing next to Owens saying that he had held every title besides the US Title was pretty funny too.
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Old 06-28-2017, 04:29 PM   #40
My Final Heaven
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My Final Heaven has a good deal of rep (10,000+)My Final Heaven has a good deal of rep (10,000+)My Final Heaven has a good deal of rep (10,000+)My Final Heaven has a good deal of rep (10,000+)My Final Heaven has a good deal of rep (10,000+)My Final Heaven has a good deal of rep (10,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
I don't understand the "Universal Championship" moniker. I thought Mike Tyson was already the reigning, defending champion of the universe, but maybe I missed something.


I thought Mike was the Heavyweight Champion of the Moon
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