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Old 01-09-2018, 09:38 PM   #761
Noid
01/05/08
 
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Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
I don't follow it much at all, so I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I know people who go to NXT and WWE shows, but there's barely any buzz about anything, and nothing about Australian indies has come up. Australia's got quite a low-density population. Even cities like Sydney and Melbourne aren't as packed as you might expect. Sydney has got twice the population of Manchester over about ten times the size, and we're not exactly the cultural hub of the world when it comes to live music, entertainment or the sorts. Most Australian performers want to get out of this place, haha.

I think they could get 1,000, honestly. When NXT came over here, Melbourne actually outdrew Sydney and got 5,000 to its 4,000. Perth drew 2,000. Gold Coast and Newcastle drew about 1,200 each (Newcastle is closer to Sydney and the Gold Coast is up near Brisbane). I'm not sure how much you want to attribute that to the WWE name, Network exposure, etc. Stars on the shows included Shinsuke Nakamura, Samoa Joe, Bobby Roode, Gargano & Ciampa, The Revival and Asuka. This was our first taste of NXT. New Japan might have a similar novel effect, but would you consider NXT more well-known than New Japan?
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:49 PM   #762
Noid
01/05/08
 
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Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
When the AWF, whoever they are, do shows at Supanova, which is our largest comic convention (not sure if it goes international or not), then they average about 500 people. So that's like gathering nerds into one place. Not sure how many people went to the House of Hardcore show. I don't think it's that fertile to be honest, especially if you keep running.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:55 AM   #763
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Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
I wish they'd have booked Kenny I think that people would show up for him, but The Buck's are a solid get for the tour. Jericho though could've made the tour a big success.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:36 PM   #764
Noid
01/05/08
 
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Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Jericho, probably. Honestly, at what point does Kenny Omega start being a big thing when New Japan and the top guys touring isn't? Do you know what I mean? Is Darren from Bendigo going to be sitting around thinking "You know what? I love me some of that real Japanese wrestling from Japan over there, and I love me that Kazoowooka Okada. But you know what? I ain't going into town to see anyone other than me Kenny Omega."

I think the fans that are aware of New Japan are probably going to go when they see Okada, Tanahashi, Suzuki and probably even The Young Bucks (geeks). Leaving Omega and Naito off probably saves them quite a bit of money.
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:52 PM   #765
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Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)Vastardikai is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)
I had this comparison, maybe Noid can counter this argument:

If I were to show people who know little of Japanese wrestling the Wrestle Kingdom Entrances of Naito and Omega, who would they think is cooler?

My money is on Naito.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:58 AM   #766
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Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
Dave gave Jericho/Omega ***** and Okada/Naito **** 1/2
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:59 AM   #767
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Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Fragile X has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
Quote:
The Tokyo Dome show came next.

1. Masahito Kakihara won the Rumble in 32:05. It opened with Katsuya Kitamura vs. Bushi. Bushi got a big reaction even though fans were mostly filing in at this point. Delirious was in next, followed by Leo Tonga. A spot that made no sense saw Tonga pinning Kitamura and Bushi broke it up. Why would you break up an elimination unless it was your own teammate? People were coming in at about 1:20 apart, but it was like a WWE Rumble (except far worse) and it was really just whenever. Chase Owens was next in. Delirious was the first guy pinned and Tiger Hattori totally blew the count. He counted to two, then stopped, and then counted all over again at 6:34. Don Callis said that they needed to give Tiger an Abacus. Nakanishi threw Bushi over the top rope at 7:00. Yuji Nagata was next in. Nakanishi got Nagata in the torture rack and threw him on Tonga. Taka Michinoku was next in. Nagata & Nakanishi pinned Tonga at 8:56. Nagata then pinned Nakanishi at 9:00 and everyone jumped on Nagata and pinned him at 9:03. Owens pinned Kitamura with a package piledriver in 9:19. I know the system but they really should have used this match to push Kitamura more. The people were wanting it. Yoshinobu Kanemaru and Desperado were the next two in. Kanemaru spit the booze in Owens’ face and the Suzuki-gun guys all threw him out at 12:39. This left only Michinoku, Kanemaru and Desperado in. Jushin Liger was next in to the biggest pop of the show up to this point and he hit shote’s on everyone. Kanemaru went after Liger’s mask. Tiger Mask was next in. Gino Gambino, a stocky guy from Australia was next in. That got a pop in bars all over Australia, where the show was on at a decent hour and they actually knew who he was, unlike anyone in Tokyo. Kanemaru pinned Liger at 16:44 and Tiger Mask was thrown out seconds later. Gambino pinned Michinoku in 17:11. Toa Henare was next in. So it was Australia vs. New Zealand. Yoshi-Hashi was next in and was throwing hard chops. David Finlay was next in. Finlay gave Gambino a stunner and Henare pinned Gambino in 21:06. Yoshi-Hashi dropkicked Henare over the to in 21:28. In a big surprise, Finlay pinned Yoshi-Hashi in 21:40 even though Yoshi-Hashi’s shoudler was up. Officiating wasn’t the strong suit in this match.; Yujiro Takahashi came out with Pieter or Tokyo Latina or Muffin Ass or whatever name Fale’s girlfriend is going by this week. Callis, now that he’s running a company, was far more under control. Actually, she was more clothed than usual. Yujiro clotheslined Finlay over the top in 22:44. Cheeseburger was in next and got a big pop. Next in was Satoshi Kojima. Hiroyoshi Tenzan was next in, followed by the big surprise in Kakihara. So it was down to Yujiro, Kojima, Tenzan, Cheeseburger and Kakihara. They put over Kakihara and his legendary super fast hands, but at 45 after cancer, he did his quick slaps and the fans were no longer fast. Really he was so small, he used to have this cool physique with the wide shoulders and small waist and not was covered from head to toe. But everyone understood. Kojima pinned Yujiro with a lariat in 29:27. Kojima was killing Cheeseburger with the machine gun chops. Kojima and Tenzan ended up bumping into each other and Kakihara gave them the slaps. Kojima went after Cheeseburger, who ducked, and Kojima went over the top in31:22. Kakihara threw out Tenzan in 31:29, and then Kakihara hit the STO on Cheeseburger to win in 32:05. Kakihara did an interview thanking the fans, talking about beating cancer and then put on a Takayama T-shirt. Kakihara and Takayama were together in the old UWFI promotion where both started out. Kakihara said that some day Takayama will stand here in the Tokyo Dome ring. *1/2

2. Matt & Nick Jackson beat Sho & Yoh in 18:49 to win the IWGP jr. tag titles. Yoh used the sharpshooter in both Bucks, who had to make the ropes. Sho & Yoh did double running flip dives. Yoh started selling like he had a back injury. Nick gave him a German suplex on the apron to make it worse. Matt destroyed Rocky Romero with a running power bomb on the ramp. Romero just laid there for minutes. Matt power bombed Yoh on the apron but he kicked out of Nick’s pin. Matt went to piledrive Yoh on the floor but he backdropped out of it and Matt took a bump on the ramp. Nick hit Yoh with a springboard dropkick. Nick went for a dive but Yoh moved and Nick took out Matt. Sho finally hot tagged in and Nick was giving Sho brutal elbows. Sho gave Matt two German suplexes and then German’d Matt & Nick at the same time. Lots of big spots. Yoh had a half crab on Matt while Sho had the same move on Nick. Matt was about to tap but Nick grabbed his hand and wouldn’t let him tap. The story of the match was that Matt and Sho both were working in intense pain after getting their backs destroyed but neither would quit. It was the FU to people who say they don’t sell or use psychology in their matches. Nick came back and did a crazy dive and Matt superkicked Yoh. They did the Meltzer driver on Yoh and Nick put the sharpshooter on Yoh for the submission. Excellent match, really would be the best match on most big shows. ****

3. Zack Sabre Jr. & Takashi Iizuka & Taichi beat Michael Elgin & Ray Rowe & Hanson in 6:05. This was the beginning of the Never six man title gauntlet. It was good action. War Machine went out with a great showing. Those guys always work hard and Elgin also always works hard. Hanson really stood out here. Sabre put a triangle on Rowe and then switched to a combination armbar and heel hook on Rowe for the submission. **

4. Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano & Baretta beat Sabre Jr. & Iizuka & Taichi in :41. They had a big brawl to start. Desperado and Yoshinobu Kanemaru were helping out Suzuki-gun. But Yano immediately gave Taichi a low blow and cradled him. 3/4*

5. Ishii & Yano & Baretta beat Togi Makabe & Juice Robinson & Ryusuke Taguchi in 3:30. It was fast paced. Robinson hit a plancha on both Ishii and Baretta. Taguchi started doing all the exaggerated Nakamura mannerisms and went for the bom a ye (Kinshasa) but Yano sidestepped him and cradled him. The finish came off great. *1/2

6. Ishii & Yano & Baretta beat Bad Luck Fale & Tama Tonga & Tanga Loa in 6:48 to win the Never Open weight six man titles. Loa gave Baretta a Death Valley bomb on the apron. They told the story of Ishii trying to suplex Fale, who is twice his size. This led to a big pop when he did it. Baretta came off the top with a moonsault but Tonga caught him in mid-air with the gunstun. That was great. Baretta pinned Tonga with the dudebuster. **3/4

7. Kota Ibushi beat Cody in 15:08. This was great as well. Brandi Rhodes came out as part of the act. She enhances Cody as far as coming off like a star, very much like Maryse did for Miz. Between Brandi, and the way Cody carried himself, he came across as a much bigger star than in his previous trips here. Ibushi did a pescado onto Cody and Brandi. The idea is that Ibushi knocked out Brandi with the dive and he acted like he was devastated. He picked her up as to carry her to the back. Cody sucker punched him and he dropped Brandi, with the idea Cody didn’t even care about his wife. Then Cody and Brandi started laughing like it was all planned. Cody hit Ibushi three times with chair shots and missed a fourth. Ibushi did his triangle moonsault to the floor. Ibushi did all his great moves. Ibushi tried a suplex but Brandi grabbed Ibushi’s legs to block it. Cody snapped Ibushi’s neck on the top rope. Cody did a crossroads off the apron and Ibushi’s sell job on it was fantastic, looking like he landed on his head on the floor. This led to a great count out tease. Cody did a springboard huracanrana for a near fall. Ibushi countered a crossroads by giving Cody a lawn dart spot into the corner. They traded shots. Ibushi went for the kawagoe (knee) but Cody ducked and hit a lariat. Cody missed a disaster kick and Ibushi came back with a German suplex, the kawagoe and Phoenix splash for the win. ****1/4

8. Seiya Sanada & Evil won the IWGP tag titles from Lance Archer & Davey Boy Smith Jr. in 14:14. Archer & Smith came out fast doing the killer bomb on Evil. Smith slammed Sanada over the top rope to the floor. Smith & Archer were out there killing Hirai Kawato, Tomoyuki Oka and Ren Narita outside the ring. Archer choke slammed Evil off the apron onto the prelim wrestlers at ringside. Archer gave Sanada a brutal clothesline. Sanada was selling for several minutes including taking a Billy Robinson double-arm suplex from Smith. Archer gave Sanada a uranage. Evil hot tagged in. Archer did a combination Spanish fly and superplex off the top rope on Evil. Sanada and Smith did a great high spot and Smith moonsaulted him. Sanada came back and did a moonsault into a skull end. Archer choke slammed Sanada but he flipped and landed no his feet. But Archer hit the choke slam. Smith used the Nagata back suplex on Sanada and they did a version of the Hart attack on Evil. They hit the killer bomb on Sanada and he kicked out. Evil hit Everything is Evil on Archer and then they used the magic killer on Smith. Smith kicked out of the pin. Finally Sanada pinned Smith after a moonsault. The story and work here was great. Archer & Smith looked strong in losing and Sanada was selling like crazy before coming back to win. ****

9. Hirooki Goto beat Minoru Suzuki to win the Never Open weight title in a hair vs. hair match in 18:05. Suzuki, who probably had his best outing of the year aside from the Okada matches, decked Goto with a slap right away. Goto came back with a hard slap of his own. Suzuki got him in the choke several times. Goto sold like he was out, eyes rolled back, limp, and the doctor came in. This was kind of overkill because if it was real and he was out cold and the doctor was in, the match should be over. Suzuki threw the doctor out of the ring. Goto was out for too long for the match to logically continue. That’s about the only negative thing I could say about the match aside from a too brutal head-butt late. Goto came back but Suzuki laughed and wouldn’t sell. Goto would throw hard chops and Suzuki wold just kill him. Goto went for an ushigoroshi but Suzuki turned it into a guillotine and choked him again. Goto powered out. Suzuki got a choke and Goto finally hit the ushigoroshi. Taka Michinoku, Desperado and Yoshinobu Kanemaru all came out. The key is that the rules of this match were no seconds allowed. This would have been the perfect time to Katsuyori Shibata to show up. Honestly, it would been the hottest thing on the show, but he wasn’t there. The ring boys went to stop them from interfering and Taichi came out. Yoshi-Hashi ran in. Goto nailed Taichi. Suzuki did an incredible slapping sequence on Goto. It was ridiculous. Goto was bleeding from the mouth. Suzuki went for the Gotch piledriver, but Goto got out of it and hit Suzuki with a brutal clothesline. Suzuki came back with a head-butt and top rope guillotine. Goto used an ushigoroshi off the middle rope. Suzuki hit a sick elbow, but Goto fired back. There was a double head-butt spot. Actually, one of the head-butts they did was not a good idea. It wasn’t Shibata on Okada but it was a bad klunk. Another head-butt was a lot safer. Suzuki hit one of the most amazing dropkicks you’ll ever see. Goto used a GTR to the front and then a regular GTR and got the pin. Suzuki was dragged off by his Suzuki-gun teammates and when he was near the back, it was like he recovered, and lived up to his word. He broke away, came back, kicked away the chair Goto set up, and put up his own chair. He then sat in the chair and cut off most of his hair. ****

10. Will Ospreay won the IWGP jr. title for a second time in a four-way over champion Marty Scurll, Kushida and Hiromu Takahashi in 21:18. This was insane. Takahashi was really over. Ospreay came out all purple. Ospreay was the star of this match but Scurll and Takahashi were fantastic. Kushida is top ten in the world easy and did his part yet he ended up the most overlooked guy here. Just never ending big moves at a break-neck pace. Kushida did a flip plancha onto Takahashi and Scurll. Ospreay climbed up the lighting grid and did a moonsault off the grid onto everyone. Ospreay did a springboard missile dropkick into an armbar by Kushida. Ospreay did a moonsault but Scurll caught him in a chicken wing and Kushida broke it up with a moonsault. Ospreay did a shooting star but Scurll caught him with an uppercut and a neckbreaker for a near fall. Scurll used Ospreay’s own Oscutter on him but Takahashi saved. Scurll taped Takahashi to the barricade with duct tape so he was out of commission for several minutes. Scurll then did the broken fingers spot on Takahashi. Kushida broke Scurll’s fingers and did a flying armbar which he turned into a triangle. Scurll threw powder in Kushida’s eyes but Kushida still hit the back to the future on Scurll and Ospreay saved with a Paul Robinson special. Takahashi finally broke free to a big pop and used a sunset flip power bomb over the top rope onto Ospreay, then Scurll and hit the time bomb on Scurll. Takahashi did a tombstone on Ospreay and a missile dropkick on him, followed by a death Valley bomb on the apron on Scurll. Kushida did a sunset flip power bomb on Takahashi on the apron and Ospreay did a springboard shooting star press on Scurll and Kushida and an inverted 450 on Takahashi for a near fall. He missed the oscutter. Scurll brought in the umbrella and nailed Ospreay and Kushida in the face. But Ospreay hit the Spanish fly and Oscutter to pin Scurll, with the story being that Scurll always beats Ospreay in the big matches. ****3/4

11. Hiroshi Tanahashi beat Jay White to keep the IC title in 19:43. This match was flat to some but the first time I saw it I thought it was really good. The second time I watched it with the U.S. announcing, without having to follow the prior match, it was far better. I think the worst match voting was a combo of White not standing out the way people hoped he would, Tanahashi selling the knee so much which he had to, and really coming off the high of the previous match and very few could have followed that. Tanahashi missed a pescado and was selling his right knee, which is the bad one. White worked on it including an Indian deathlock. Tanahashi came back and worked on White’s knee starting with the dragon screw. Tanahashi even with all his injuries still did a great looking high fly flow to the floor. White did a great German suplex and Tanahashi rolled out of the ring. He did a brainbuster on the apron. They got lost here as White went to the top rope and waited for Tanahashi to get up. Tanahashi was still selling so he climbed down. White taunted him and Tanahashi decked him with a slap. White used a head-and-arm suplex, a Saito suplex and a Death Valley driver for near falls. He missed a missile dropkick and Tanahashi went back to working on White’s knee. Tanahashi did a twist and shout off the middle rope, two sling blades and crossbody off the top rope. But Tanahashi missed the high fly flow. White got him in the crucifix and was throwing elbows like Gary Goodridge in an early UFC with Paul Herrera. This was the spot he knocked Tanahashi out in an angle at the end of the year. But Tanahashi kicked out of the pin. Tanahashi came back to win with a dragon suplex, a hard slap, the high fly flow to the back and another high fly flow. Tanahashi’s nose was bleeding when this was over. ***3/4

12. Kenny Omega pinned Chris Jericho in 34:36 to retain the U.S. title in a no DQ match. Jericho came out to his own song, “Judas.” Omega came out with the Young Bucks dressed in an Osiris costume from Destiny. Jericho attacked him right away. They had a pull-apart. They went at a fast pace. Omega went for a springboard plancha over the guard rail but Jericho moved and Omega crashed through the American announcing table, taking out Don Callis. Jericho used the Walls of Jericho. He also threw down ref Red Shoes and then attacked Red Shoes’ son Shota Umino and put him in the Walls of Jericho after he’d taken out his father. He changed it to the lion tamer on Umino until Omega made the save. They brawled on the floor including Omega coming off the lighting structure with a double foot stomp onto a table on top of Jericho. Omega was bleeding from the mouth by this point. Jericho suplexed him on the floor. Jericho came back and power bombed Omega on the floor. They traded stiff shots. Omega hit the Terminator dive followed by a facebuster and a neckbreaker over the knee. Jericho escaped a snap dragon suplex and put Omega in the Walls of Jericho. Omega crawled to the corner and got the bottle of the freezing spray they use to numb an injury and sprayed it in Jericho’s eyes. Jericho came back and threw Omega’ head into a chair and Omega came up bleeding. Jericho was pounding on the cut. Omega came back with two snap dragon suplexes and a sin kick. He did another snap dragon but Jericho hit him with a brutal chair shot to the head. That wasn’t good. Omega was bleeding like crazy. Jericho kept using chair shots to the back and jabbed the chair to Omega’s throat. Omega dropkicked a chair into Jericho’s face and hit a V trigger, knocking Jericho off the ropes and through a table. Jericho was cut form the left eye. Omega used V triggers and double arm piledriver but Jericho kicked out. Jericho got the Walls of Jericho back on. At this point Jericho was cut near his butt and bleeding from the mouth as well. He turned it into a lion tamer but Omega made the ropes. Jericho decked Red Shoes again. He went for a codebreaker but Omega blocked and hit two V triggers and finally hit the One Winged Angel, but Jericho got his hand on the ropes. Omega went to the top but Jericho scooped his leg and crotched him. Jericho went for a top rope huracanrana but Omega blocked and dropped him on his head. Omega went for you can’t escape but Jericho hit the codebreaker. Jericho kept hitting him with a chair and telling him to stay down. He went for a lionsault but Omega threw the chair at him, and hit a One Winged Angel, dropping Jericho on the chair for the pin. *****

13. Kazuchika Okada pinned Tetsuya Naito in 34:26 to retain the IWGP heavyweight title. Okada came out with long pants for a change. The crowd live was more hyped for this than anything on the show. Both guys looked like they had cut weight, Okada more than Naito, knowing they had to be in their best shape for a bout like this. They had to start slow as fans were coming off a high of the finish of the prior match. Naito gained a first advantage with a neckbreaker over the guard rail outside the ring. He used a missile dropkick and spit on Okada. Okada did a sprint where he ran around three sides of the ring and kicked Naito in the face, then dropped him with a sick draping DDT. They traded moves, including Okada doing the Randy Savage elbow. Okada got the cobra clutch, and while Naito promised a counter, he couldn’t get out, but did make the ropes. Naito did a reverse huracanrana off the top rope and Gloria for a near fall. Naito then missed the stardust press. They pounded on each other with Naito beating him down and hitting a koppo kick. Okada came back with woo dropkick. Naito went for a superplex but Okada threw elbows that knocked him halfway across the ring. Okada missed a missile dropkick. Naito went to the top. Okada tried to German suplex him but Okada held onto the ropes to block it. Okada powered Naito off into a German suplex. Okada went for the rainmaker but Okada ducked and hit the flying forearm. Okada hit the rainmaker but Naito kicked out. Naito got out of a tombstone piledriver attempt. He missed an enzuigiri and Okada went back to the cobra clutch. Naito reversed and hit destino. They traded forearms with Naito getting the better of it. They were trading elbows with the story being that Okada was seemingly done and his elbows were weak. Naito spit on him and slapped him hard in the face. Naito went for a huracanrana but Okada turned it into a DDT and hit the rainmaker. He went for another one but Naito ducked and hit destino, but Okada kicked out again. Naito hit a step up enzuigiri but Okada finally hit a dropkick every bit as good as the one Suzuki threw earlier, and hit the tombstone. He went for a rainmaker, but Naito got out and hit destino again. He went for a second one, but Okada blocked it, hit a spinning tombstone piledriver and the rainmaker for the pin. After the match Gedo did a promo followed by Okada, with Okada thanking everyone for the big crowd and told the people how many were for Naito and many were for him but it was his night. He said that he and Naito will probably cross paths again at the Tokyo Dome in the main event some day. He said once again he’d make it rain, not just cash, but emotions and happiness. He pointed to the few empty spots in the building and said that his goal is to fill those spots and sell the building out. ****
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:03 AM   #768
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For me I'd have said....

Okada/Naito - 3 1/2 Stars
Omega/Jericho - 5 Stars
Tanahashi/White - 3 Stars
Juniorheavyweight - 3 1/2 Stars
Suzuki/Goto - 4 Stars
IWGP Tag Team - 3 Stars
Ibushi/Cody - 4 Stars
Gauntlet - 3 Stars
Bucks/Vice - 3 Stars
Rumble - 1 Star
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Old 01-11-2018, 05:47 PM   #769
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Whoa! 5 stars? That's awesome.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:02 PM   #770
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:27 AM   #771
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I'm thinking Jericho beats Naito, and goes on to face Okada for the title at Dominion.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:48 PM   #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
I had this comparison, maybe Noid can counter this argument:

If I were to show people who know little of Japanese wrestling the Wrestle Kingdom Entrances of Naito and Omega, who would they think is cooler?

My money is on Naito.
Naito is infinitely cooler than Omega. Omega is pretty lame, to be honest. Very talented, but such a fucking geek.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:49 PM   #773
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What is it with everyone whoring around five stars?
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:05 PM   #774
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What specifically are you talking about?
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:13 PM   #775
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Jericho/Omega. It was great, but it's not a perfect match.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:49 PM   #776
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If your rating scale is similar to that of a diving or figure skating competition then I would say you are right. There are flaws in the match, things that didn't go well, that are sloppy or not smooth. But if your scale is like Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB then I think those technical aspect are mute and the whole picture - lights, camera and sound are what make up a match.

I think Pro Wrestling matches are too subjective to be judged like a diving competition, but rating them the same way we rate movies to me makes the most sense. Citizen Kane is hailed as one of the great movies of all time but most people who love film, have the average millennial watch it and they will be asleep or swiping on their phone in minutes.

For me, the whole tornado that swept up NJPW with Alpha/Omega turned out to be five stars because the match was non-stop fun, really hard hitting, and very gritty. The lack of perfection made it perfect. It reminds me of Cena/Punk at MITB, a modern classic.

I'm not trying to sway your opinion though, I'm glad you enjoyed it too.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:19 PM   #777
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I hear what you're saying, but the movie analogy is exactly why I wouldn't call it five stars, haha. Citizen Kane is a classic movie, and it has all this cultural cache too. To then say that Omega/Jericho has equal cache is just...weird to me. I think the highest anyone rating matches should go is four, and I feel that should be kept more prestigious. Omega/Jericho was like ***1/2 to me. But yeah, it's all subjective, but that's why I hate star ratings. Not so much you, but so many people are like "that was a pretty good match -- ****1/2". Ugh.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:29 PM   #778
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Star ratings to me are worthless.

Then again, for me the Hierarchy goes like this, from most important to least:

1. Promotion
2. Character
3. Angle
4. Match
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:32 PM   #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Naito is infinitely cooler than Omega. Omega is pretty lame, to be honest. Very talented, but such a fucking geek.
Omega is the pro wrestling equivalent of Emo Peter Parker in Spiderman 3: A dork's interpretation of cool.

Naito is the guy who commands attention just by walking into the room.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:45 PM   #780
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I think matches are effective within the parameters of the story they are trying to tell. Kassius Ohno vs. Lars Sullivan from the most recent Takeover was so much more effective at ticking the boxes it needed to than a lot of the wank that gets a lot of internet fans drooling.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:48 AM   #781
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I'm actually in the camp that some matches NEED to be "bad."

A jobber squash doesn't need to be a 5* affair, because that isn't the point. It's to make the star look like a star.

A gimmick match doesn't always have to be good. Martel vs. Jake "The Snake's" Blindfold match was atrocious, but it worked as a payoff for a feud revolving around blindness.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:03 AM   #782
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If every match is "good," pretty soon nothing is.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:57 AM   #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
If every match is "good," pretty soon nothing is.
That's true, and why the booking at WK12 was so perfect. Everything got better and better until Jericho/Omega. And then Naito/Okada was supposed to be a cleaner classic, and it worked for most people. I didn't love it til the final 10 minutes though.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:16 AM   #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Very well expressed. I agree with everything except the Naito loss, haha. I hope you guys are planning a WK12 review podcast, and that you made Kieran and Karl watch it, haha. Not that I'm sure they would have needed too much twisting, since New Japan is a product that has got a lot of good buzz and has been delivering on its promises.
Indeed - and will post this out for everyone, join us for the first SCG Radio of the year as we talk all about New Japan Pro Wrestling's biggest show of the year, Wrestle Kingdom 12! Talking through all the matches, the panel discusses (among other things) the greatness of Minoru Suzuki, the brilliance of Kazuchika Okada, the not-so-cutting-edge debut match for the Switchblade character, the difficult balancing act New Japan has with Tetsuya Naito, the fantastic Jericho/Omega production, and speak of New Japan's phenomenal standing in the wrestling world as it looks ahead to a very interesting 2018. So much to discuss, check it out and let us know what you think!


https://squaredcirclegazette.podbean...Kingdom_12.mp3
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:34 PM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragile X View Post
That's true, and why the booking at WK12 was so perfect. Everything got better and better until Jericho/Omega. And then Naito/Okada was supposed to be a cleaner classic, and it worked for most people. I didn't love it til the final 10 minutes though.
That's fair enough. For me, Naito/Okada was the "best" match on the show, but Suzuki/Goto was my "favorite." Jericho/Omega was behind each in both category, and I'd give it a solid third place for the night.

That we can have this discussion about three very distinct matches is a very good thing.
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