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Old 02-05-2018, 07:45 AM   #1
The MAC
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How did anyone ever believe wrestling was real ?

On these podcasts they discuss getting so much heat because the crowd believed wrestling was real. How stupid does one have to be to see that
men are "punching" each other in the face and there's no instant knock out, no blood, black eyes, fat lips or injuries in every match ?

Also, wrestlers apparently have hatred for each other yet they come out through the same entrance.

Also, a guy goes from one company to another and becomes a different person eg, Diamond Stud becoming a cuban drug dealer.




shoot interviews for free : http://forums.projectcovo.com/showthread.php?t=1562931

Another quality shitty thread by The MAC
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Old 02-05-2018, 07:52 AM   #2
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It's still real to me, damn it!
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Old 02-05-2018, 07:55 AM   #3
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No see the characters are the "entertainment" part. Vince makes them dress up like hockey players, garbage disposal men, sailors, the living dead etc... just to fool people so they don't have to pay sports rights fees, see it's entertainment! But the action is all real, everybody knows that. Come on, you can't fake gravity brother!
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:49 AM   #4
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People don't get knocked out because closed fists are illegal obviously.
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Old 02-05-2018, 09:47 AM   #5
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Honestly everythign you just said makes me think you never watched wrestling pre 87ish and never outside the fed
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Old 02-05-2018, 09:52 AM   #6
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The territories were very, very protective of the business
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Old 02-05-2018, 09:57 AM   #7
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Al Snow told a great story. Ole Anderson brought Tony Atlas into his territory and got him over huge by having him bench 500 lbs in the middle of the ring. Even let the fans come in and try to lift the weight. Nobody could come close. Atlas lifts it and the place goes fucking nuts. Then they announce he'll make his debut next week.

Sell out the next week. Wrestles a match against a guy the size of Funaki. Like a 12 minute, exciting, back and forth match with Atlas going over.

Atlas gets backstage and Ole immediately fires him. Because by having the "best match of the show", he ended up burying himself by taking so long to beat a guy he was way bigger than, not to mention punching him a million times in the match and leaving no mark. If anyone came out of the match looking good, it was his opponent for hanging in that long. And at worst, it exposed to the audience that it's all fake.

Dude got fired after exactly one match in the territory because they felt he exposed the business in said match. That's how protective the territories were.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:15 AM   #8
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I have a couple friends from the south who go to indie shows and tell me there's still grown adults beliving it's real.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:21 AM   #9
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They absolutely do.


And to be fair there are small shows out there that do a good job keeping it alive. "that stuff on tv is fake but these guys are real" type mentality
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
Shane McMahon brought Shinsuke Nakamura into his territory and got him over huge by announcing him as the most dominate NXT Champion of all time. Then they announce he'll make his debut next week.

Sell out the next week. Wrestles a match against a guy named Dolph Ziggler. Like a 20 minute, exciting, back and forth match with Nakamura going over.

Nakamura gets backstage and Shane immediately fires him. Because by having the "best match of the show", he ended up burying himself by taking so long to beat a guy he was way better than.
I dunno why I mad libbed that.
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:25 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
People don't get knocked out because closed fists are illegal obviously.
What is an open fist?
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:28 AM   #12
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a slap
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:10 PM   #13
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:06 PM   #14
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Huh.
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Old 02-05-2018, 03:10 PM   #15
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Are you asking if any of us were ever children?
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:05 PM   #16
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It was ABSOLUTELY real up until television changed everything in the '50s. Then promoters saw the new technology as a way to both entertain crowds and use predetermined matches as a way to make the competition less dangerous for the athletes.
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:10 PM   #17
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Probably like how people can be fooled with magic tricks but once they learn how its actually done, the tricks lose some of their luster.

With wrestling, the trick is to keep people entertained enough that they start to believe the people in the ring hate each other for real. Like Brother Vito mentioned earlier, wrestlers and companies made sure their tricks were not recklessly exposed to maintain the "real" feeling.
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
I have a couple friends from the south who go to indie shows and tell me there's still grown adults beliving it's real.
I talked to a guy like a year ago who found out I was a wrestling fan and about a minute into the conversation he was telling me how the cause of Andre the Giant's death was a heart attack from Jake Roberts throwing Damien on him.

He wasn't joking.
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Old 02-05-2018, 07:12 PM   #19
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I will say Unlike the Jim Cornettes of the world I don't think exposing the business hurts it any
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Old 02-05-2018, 07:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The MAC View Post
On these podcasts they discuss getting so much heat because the crowd believed wrestling was real. How stupid does one have to be to see that
men are "punching" each other in the face and there's no instant knock out, no blood, black eyes, fat lips or injuries in every match ?

Also, wrestlers apparently have hatred for each other yet they come out through the same entrance.

Also, a guy goes from one company to another and becomes a different person eg, Diamond Stud becoming a cuban drug dealer.
1. Al Snow covers this. The reason why the closed fist was illegal was because it is the fakest things wrestlers do. The folks with the best punches often threw potatoes. And you had promotions like East Tennessee where they used such charming things like "The Wedge."

2. The same entrance thing is a recent phenomenon. As in, the last 20 to 25 years or so. Before that, the Heels had a locker room and the Faces had a locker room. And they entered during different parts of the building.

3. You know we didn't always have the internet or nationally televised promotions, right? Because, before we had internet, you could go to a different territory and have a completely different gimmick, and no one would know the difference. Except maybe the occasional person who moved there from another territory or are visiting family or something like that. And if the performer in question changed his look enough, they might not have even noticed.
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
I will say Unlike the Jim Cornettes of the world I don't think exposing the business hurts it any
Cornette may exaggerate but it definitely hurts it to SOME extent. The business wass certainly better off when they could blur the lines of reality and weren't basically shouting "This is all make believe!" from the rooftops.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:23 PM   #22
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I blame the internet. I thought it was real til I got on the internet in 1996
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
I will say Unlike the Jim Cornettes of the world I don't think exposing the business hurts it any
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Cornette may exaggerate but it definitely hurts it to SOME extent. The business wass certainly better off when they could blur the lines of reality and weren't basically shouting "This is all make believe!" from the rooftops.
I think folks misunderstand what he means by "exposing the business". It's kinda like folks having to use the term "climate change" because the average dumbass can't wrap their brain around "global warming" not meaning that there won't be snow next winter. That's not how that works.

Yes, people obviously know by and large by now that everything is scripted, predetermined, etc., and that phrasing makes it seem like there is a chance of still kayfabing the audience by and large if it weren't for them pesky Young Bucks. That isn't the case at all.

We say he's too far in the past and set in his ways and out of touch... but we're the same folks who shit all over the WWE Jinder Mahal push. Why? Because it was a very blatant, shallow attempt by a company to force-feed a man into a position he was not ready for whatsoever to try to get ethnic buys in a region he really isn't even from. It would have been an easier pill to swallow if his rise was incremental and "believable" within the bounds of a wrestler getting better, and not just a sudden rocket up his ass where he goes from jerking curtains, to suddenly, he's #1 contender and supposedly a legit main event threat in a two week period. That seriously "exposed the business" about as much as the "Joey Ryan spot", just in a different way. Nobody wanted to see that shit. Was too egregiously and cynical.

And you can pretty much guarantee they're going to do it again, except this time, trying to get into that South American market they seem to be shifting focus to with the seeds being sewn by not only trying to manufacture another Rey Rey (before saying "fuck it" and bringing the real thing back), but now adding the likes of No Way Jose, Andrade Almas, Cezar Bononi (who I can see getting a Baron Corbin like push), and bringing in Ricochet, they're going to try to hotshot one of those guys into the highest eschelon like they attempted to do with Alberto Of The River when they were fixated on marketing to Mexico specifically for some reason a number of years back.

It is mainly just another way of saying "doing stupid, grossly unbelievable shit that takes most people out of even wanting to watch the product or making one feel afool for even investing in the first place". While I don't exactly agree that Austin Aries shouldn't get a shot because he personally rubbed him the wrong way somewhere in the past, or that someone like Kenny Omega should be "disqualified from wrestling forever" because of sins of his past, but other people who have done dumb shit in their careers (like Adam Cole obsessed with getting blowjobs mid-match, or Bubba Ray having a toy lightsaber fight in the middle of a brawl) that he doesn't seem to have a problem with get glossed over, I agree with the overall intent of what he's trying to convey.
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:19 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Droford View Post
I blame the internet. I thought it was real til I got on the internet in 1996
Lucky you. I got smartened up before that by complete accident.

Saw a live show in my hometown around 88-ish. The Rockers were still together and Ultimate Warrior was on the card. That weekend on Superstars, I pretty much saw nearly every match I watched that night, right down to Sgt. Slaughter trying to argue with the ref about his opponent "pulling my (non-existent) hair", only all those matches were in different cities, none of which were where I was. Kinda put 2 and 2 together, but I also didn't care, I still enjoyed it.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:24 AM   #25
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Honestly everythign you just said makes me think you never watched wrestling pre 87ish and never outside the fed
Yah, basically this.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:27 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
Al Snow told a great story. Ole Anderson brought Tony Atlas into his territory and got him over huge by having him bench 500 lbs in the middle of the ring. Even let the fans come in and try to lift the weight. Nobody could come close. Atlas lifts it and the place goes fucking nuts. Then they announce he'll make his debut next week.

Sell out the next week. Wrestles a match against a guy the size of Funaki. Like a 12 minute, exciting, back and forth match with Atlas going over.

Atlas gets backstage and Ole immediately fires him. Because by having the "best match of the show", he ended up burying himself by taking so long to beat a guy he was way bigger than, not to mention punching him a million times in the match and leaving no mark. If anyone came out of the match looking good, it was his opponent for hanging in that long. And at worst, it exposed to the audience that it's all fake.

Dude got fired after exactly one match in the territory because they felt he exposed the business in said match. That's how protective the territories were.
If you make them believe A is real, and that B is real, and C is real, then eventually people are going to stop checking your paperwork. This is how white collar crime happens, and it's how professional wrestling can work really well. You make a big joke out of C, though, then no one is going to invest in D or E or anything else you try to pull.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:27 AM   #27
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I will say Unlike the Jim Cornettes of the world I don't think exposing the business hurts it any
Why not? Genuinely curious.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:30 AM   #28
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Like, what is the point of "wrestling" if you go out there and tell the crowd "this doesn't matter, this isn't real, there isn't any drama here." Honestly what is the goal that is trying to be achieved? Where's the work? I don't think of working as making sure everything is fake; I think of working as making people think it's worth investing in.
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:15 AM   #29
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Same as watching a movie or play.

It's the suspension of disbelief that matters.

Anyway, going to answer the question of the thread.

Because wrestlers used to cripple guys constantly. Calling one out in a bar used to be a bad idea. A lot of one eyed dudes in.the world served as warnings.
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:18 PM   #30
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Genuinely keen to hear the excuses for exposing the business. I guess I used to think that ironic was a way to let people know you didn't take it too seriously, because "don't you know it's fake?" is such a big stigma. But I guess I kind of grew out of that with further education and experience.

People are so easy to work. McGregor/Mayweather is a perfect example. Do you think they'd have drawn so much if they just came out and said "lol, we don't really hate each other, we're just doing this for the cash" and did an Irish jig at their press confonference? I know so many people worked by the personalities in the UFC. I know so many people worked by the personalities of actors, musicians and politicians that they've never met, but "identify" with.

I just don't get how people can't concede the business would be better -- undeniably better -- if people tried to work others more often. Like, if people are just going to go around and see Wrestler A versus Wrestler B just to see them flip around and hug, don't you think that number would still go, plus others, if they actually sold tension between the two? I mean, it seems academic to me: Ironic fans + genuine fans > ironic fans - genuine fans.
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Old 02-06-2018, 06:44 PM   #31
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Yeah, but UFC has the advantage of being a legitimate competitive sport. People buy into those feuds.

Wrestlers have to make us believe.
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:39 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Swiss View Post
Yeah, but UFC has the advantage of being a legitimate competitive sport. People buy into those feuds.

Wrestlers have to make us believe.
It's harder, but it's not impossible. I know so many people (intelligent people too), who believe that the personalities of the UFC fighters must be real because the fight is purportedly real. Wrestling, at the very worst, just needs to come at it from a different angle -- the personalities are real, therefore their fights must be.
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:51 PM   #33
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I never believed it was real.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:38 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Swiss View Post
Yeah, but UFC has the advantage of being a legitimate competitive sport. People buy into those feuds.

Wrestlers have to make us believe.
UFC is about as legitimate as boxing in my eyes, I have no doubt plenty of matches go just as planned either by smart match making or other means.
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
UFC is about as legitimate as boxing in my eyes, I have no doubt plenty of matches go just as planned either by smart match making or other means.
Bingo. I don't really follow, but the amount of times I've heard my friends say "Why is such and such not getting the title shot?" and I'm thinking "Because they're booking this shit smartly."
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:06 AM   #36
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Yes...I mean otherwise there'd be a lot of tournaments to decide number 1 contender and we'd all follow along.

Regardless, the punching is real, so people are more likely to buy the hype.

A talented wrestler makes us believe even though we know the truth.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:01 PM   #37
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It isnt real???
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