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Old 05-16-2018, 02:58 PM   #281
Lock Jaw
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Ok, thank you.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:03 PM   #282
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:10 PM   #283
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There was a bunch of us who had predicted this from the start given the complainant's lack of credibility.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:12 PM   #284
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Was just talking about Enzo at the gym this morning with one of his friends, saying he own't be back ever but Cass needs him. Bad.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:17 PM   #285
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Just because there was insufficient evidence doesn't mean that it was a false accusation.

Amore shouldn't serve jail time for something for which there is not sufficient proof. But there is not a chance in hell WWE will bring him back.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:22 PM   #286
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Quote:
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Just because there was insufficient evidence doesn't mean that it was a false accusation.

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Enzo won't be charged with rape. But people will still think he's a rapist.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:23 PM   #287
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Its very doubtful he's guilty given everything we know about the accuser and the situation.

But that's the shitty thing about these cases. The accusation alone can ruin your life.

Ian Rotten will still book him though.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:30 PM   #288
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Yep he's done. I mean by all accounts he's a headache but fuck, that's a raw deal.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:38 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED
Just because there was insufficient evidence doesn't mean that it was a false accusation.

Amore shouldn't serve jail time for something for which there is not sufficient proof. But there is not a chance in hell WWE will bring him back.
Right! It's a difficult charge to prove. DAs want winnable cases. But yeah I also doubt WWE will bring him back since he violated the Morality Clause which requires WWE employees to inform them when under investigation. That's why he let go, not the charge itself. Swann got work at Impact despite his domestic investigation so there's a chance for Amore.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:43 PM   #290
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Except Swann actually did it and it's all but proven that he did. With witnesses and everything. His wife just didn't wanna press charges.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:46 PM   #291
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If there's insufficient evidence for anything it doesn't necessarily mean it's false. Doesn't mean that the odds of it being true are equal to the odds of it being false. That's why "innocent until proven guilty" is a thing. Enzo is just as innocent as any human being who hasn't been accused of rape.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:49 PM   #292
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Thank you kindly, TODDSTER. Said pretty much what I wanted to say.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:06 PM   #293
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If Enzo wishes to continue to have a career in wrestling, he'll probably be in Impact by year's end. They've signed guys in similar situations to him before.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:09 PM   #294
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AFAIK, Enzo was looking to quite wrestling entirely and work towards a rap career.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:35 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
If there's insufficient evidence for anything it doesn't necessarily mean it's false. Doesn't mean that the odds of it being true are equal to the odds of it being false. That's why "innocent until proven guilty" is a thing. Enzo is just as innocent as any human being who hasn't been accused of rape.
Yeah. The chances of getting any sort of conviction against him was always going to be low based on the stats for these types of crimes and the accuser having her own issues.

He still did one of the most boneheaded decisions ever by not telling the WWE about this incident. Between that and drugs being involved, the chances of him not getting fired or punished was going to be slim to none.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:52 PM   #296
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Quote:
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Just because there was insufficient evidence doesn't mean that it was a false accusation.
Doesn't mean it's true either.
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Old 05-16-2018, 05:38 PM   #297
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Enzo would be back if there wasn't so much heat on him before the incident.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:01 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
Just because there was insufficient evidence doesn't mean that it was a false accusation.

Amore shouldn't serve jail time for something for which there is not sufficient proof. But there is not a chance in hell WWE will bring him back.
Thank you. Some common sense. When these things boil down to he-said/she-said, it's hard to make a case. That doesn't mean the thing never happened. Women in the mess that this alleged victim was are often preyed on because the old boys will dismiss even credible stories if it goes against the narrative they want to believe about women loving to lie about being weakened and violated.

If there's not enough evidence to press charges against Enzo, of course he shouldn't be prosecuted. That's not to say he is entitled to a job in entertainment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
If there's insufficient evidence for anything it doesn't necessarily mean it's false. Doesn't mean that the odds of it being true are equal to the odds of it being false. That's why "innocent until proven guilty" is a thing. Enzo is just as innocent as any human being who hasn't been accused of rape.
Statistically, false reports of sexual abuse are very, very rare. I'm not going to look up the statistic again, but again, the old boys make it very hard for people (men, women and children) to come out and actually say "Yes, this happened to me." Your reasoning is perfectly logical until it ignores the data around these sorts of acts. It's coming at it from an "all things being equal" point of view, which is fine for a court of law, but doesn't reflect reality.

You're seeing it in the public sphere more and more. That Lawrence Krauss guy was accused of sexual assault by a whole bunch of independent witnesses -- many of them with sterling reputations, with it being a detriment to their careers to speak out about it. A whole bunch of edgy lads on the net go around saying stuff like "That's not evidence; that's not evidence." It's so gross. There wouldn't have been evidence in this situation, and Enzo shouldn't be locked up because of an accusation that can't be validated -- which is unfortunate if true -- but that's a blind-spot of the legal system. And it's a blind-spot that has to be there. It's just gross when MRAs borderline relish it. Gives me the goddamn heebies.

And if I were running a wrestling company, fuck Enzo Amore. He's not talented enough to warrant the headaches even if he had an airtight alibi. But Impact will use him, so good for that shit-hole.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:11 PM   #299
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:16 PM   #300
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So say Enzo didn't do anything which is as likely as anything else. He some how deserves this?

It's okay because "fuck the patriarchy?".

I'm aware of the stats and they are incredibly problematic (depending on validity) but this outcome isn't the lesser of two evils--it's still just evil.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:26 PM   #301
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I hope Enzo Amore is on the next season of Survivor
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:35 PM   #302
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Quote:
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Statistically, false reports of sexual abuse are very, very rare. I'm not going to look up the statistic again, but again, the old boys make it very hard for people (men, women and children) to come out and actually say "Yes, this happened to me." Your reasoning is perfectly logical until it ignores the data around these sorts of acts. It's coming at it from an "all things being equal" point of view, which is fine for a court of law, but doesn't reflect reality.
It absolutely reflects reality. What DOESN'T effect reality is when you haphazardly take any accusation as true or even likely until proven otherwise because "most women don't lie about this". The evidence in this case is the evidence in this case. That's reality. The idea that anyone making an allegation must be believed until proven otherwise is disgusting regardless of the claim.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:40 PM   #303
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I always thought it was innocent until proven guilty. Apparently it's been guilty until proven innocent the entire time. Blows my mind how I missed that this whole time.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:46 PM   #304
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Also can if we can factor in "statistically, women don't lie", can we factor in "statistically, crazy drug addicts with a history of being unstable attention whores tend to lie a lot more than others"? Because that's also definitely reality.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:53 PM   #305
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Women don't lie.....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I wish someone would tell women that.

Boy. Let me stop. That was rich though.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:53 PM   #306
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"Innocent until proven guilty" is so commonly misunderstood. It refers to legal innocence, not factual innocence, meaning that gov't has to prove an accused person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Mileage can vary on reasonable doubt but a juror must not convict even if they believe the defendant to be guilty. That's why a person guilty as sin can get acquitted.

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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
Also can if we can factor in "statistically, women don't lie", can we factor in "statistically, crazy drug addicts with a history of being unstable attention whores tend to lie a lot more than others"? Because that's also definitely reality.
It is but doesn't cancel out the reality of false accusations being rare.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:00 PM   #307
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My point is proven. Very clear that the allegation alone means Enzo is a rapist to you guys even though he has not been proven guilty.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:01 PM   #308
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It shouldn't be misunderstood though. The fact that someone can have their livelihood stripped away solely based on accusations, without their guilt ever being proven, well that's just simply appalling to me.

Statistics should have no bearing on any of this. This is all on a case by case basis. Who cares if false accusations are rare? Those are other cases that have no relevance to this one. Every one of these situations is unique and to break it down into statistical analysis does all parties involved an injustice. If we keep heading down this road the number of false accusations is liable to start rising exponentially; once people realize they can screw over someone they don't like just by levelling an accusation at them, regardless of the legitimacy of the claim, more and more people will do it purely out of spite.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:04 PM   #309
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Sorry Seph. All women are virtuous beings incapable of evil actions.

But anyways. I agree with you. It should all be a case-by-case basis.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:11 PM   #310
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It is but doesn't cancel out the reality of false accusations being rare.
One of those bull shit "stats" that cant be proven.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:13 PM   #311
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One of those bull shit "stats" that cant be proven.
That's what I keep thinking.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:13 PM   #312
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Cop once told me in elementary school that 90% of all criminals get caught. Im still dumbfounded by how ignorant you have to believe to think you can quantify that
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:22 PM   #313
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Saw a homeless lady walking around the streets yelling that she was raped by George Washington's ghost. Based on statistics, she was telling the truth.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:23 PM   #314
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One of those bull shit "stats" that cant be proven.
Not really considering there are organizations that track these stats and reveal why it becomes one of the hardest crimes to get a conviction in court. Besides the circumstances and scrutiny for evidence, attacking the accuser's credibility has been a very proven and effective tactic both in court and public opinion.

Those same organizations also come up with the same overall result that the amount of rapes that don't get reported or investigated properly is way, way, way higher than those that do.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:25 PM   #315
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Saw a homeless lady walking around the streets yelling that she was raped by George Washington's ghost. Based on statistics, she was telling the truth.
Well we have to take her word for it. This changes everything we thought we knew about George Washington. I'll start writing the exposť and get it published by babe.net. If that fails I'll settle for Huffington Post.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:27 PM   #316
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Not really considering there are organizations that track these stats and reveal why it becomes one of the hardest crimes to get a conviction in court. Besides the circumstances and scrutiny for evidence, attacking the accuser's credibility has been a very proven and effective tactic both in court and public opinion.

Those same organizations also come up with the same overall result that the amount of rapes that don't get reported or investigated properly is way, way, way higher than those that do.
I'm not saying there isn't any merit to this. But it's literally one lens.

The attitude of "he was accused therefore he did it" is fucked.

He isn't even getting charged anymore because they can't prove anything and y'all are gonna act like he deserves it. I don't like Enzo, but with what we know from the case, nobody can fairly say he deserves to be considered a rapist by anyone.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:31 PM   #317
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How do they have even a count on "rapes that don't get reported"? If they aren't reported then how do they know about them? SO CONFUSING.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:50 PM   #318
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Quote:
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Not really considering there are organizations that track these stats and reveal why it becomes one of the hardest crimes to get a conviction in court. Besides the circumstances and scrutiny for evidence, attacking the accuser's credibility has been a very proven and effective tactic both in court and public opinion.

Those same organizations also come up with the same overall result that the amount of rapes that don't get reported or investigated properly is way, way, way higher than those that do.
The flaw to this is the assumption that the verdict is true making this entire metric worthless
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:50 PM   #319
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I'm not saying there isn't any merit to this. But it's literally one lens.

The attitude of "he was accused therefore he did it" is fucked.

He isn't even getting charged anymore because they can't prove anything and y'all are gonna act like he deserves it. I don't like Enzo, but with what we know from the case, nobody can fairly say he deserves to be considered a rapist by anyone.
How is that any different than automatically believing the woman is lying either every time incidents like this pop up.

Based on the various sites I visit daily, a ton more have stuck with the woman being a liar the whole time and used today to pounce on their claims even though the case was only dismissed. A big chunk believing he's still a dumbass for not telling the WWE, a smaller chunk realizing he's still neither guilty nor innocent (same for the accuser), and barely anyone claiming he is still a rapist.


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How do they have even a count on "rapes that don't get reported"? If they aren't reported then how do they know about them? SO CONFUSING.
Estimates and probably police data which is why the range can vary a lot. Last I read, its something like 1 out of every 3 cases are ever reported in the US as a best case and then the number keeps dwindling percentage wise the close you get to a possible conviction due to various reasons and circumstances.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:52 PM   #320
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Quote:
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How do they have even a count on "rapes that don't get reported"? If they aren't reported then how do they know about them? SO CONFUSING.
Was my argument to the cop claiming 9/10 criminals get caught. At the least the scale has to tip beyond the claim, you cant put a value to unknowns and hope for anything that resembles accuracy.

It jusr "feels" accurate. Its not science.
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