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Old 08-20-2017, 07:25 PM   #1
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It doesn't surprise that adamle doesn't know the meaning of the word "literally." What surprises me is that he has managed to not fall down and get stuck somewhere.
Says the guy from the country that can't even figure out it's own place on a map.
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Old 08-21-2017, 05:59 AM   #2
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:25 PM   #3
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I really don't see the problem with Santino's cobra or Joey Ryan's dongstyle. Both are silly but so is pro wrestling as a whole. If you can't have fun with either of those can you have fun with anything in wrestling?
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Old 08-21-2017, 06:01 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Moose Knuckle View Post
I really don't see the problem with Santino's cobra or Joey Ryan's dongstyle. Both are silly but so is pro wrestling as a whole. If you can't have fun with either of those can you have fun with anything in wrestling?
This is a very good point.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:34 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Moose Knuckle View Post
I really don't see the problem with Santino's cobra or Joey Ryan's dongstyle. Both are silly but so is pro wrestling as a whole. If you can't have fun with either of those can you have fun with anything in wrestling?
It's been kind of explained by people, but the attitude that "pro wrestling is silly" seeps into the presentation, and that seeps into the perception. People find it hard to really develop an affinity for silly stuff from the get-go -- they already have silly stuff in their lives, by and large.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is far more likely you will attract people with a dramatic and engaging product with stakes. That is your goal as a promoter -- to put as many asses in seats as possible. I'd wager a bet that most of the people who like this comedy stuff were already fans of wrestling before they started watching it. This is a problem when it comes to growing -- which wrestling arguably needs to do since it is in a low patch right now.
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Old 08-21-2017, 09:35 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
It's been kind of explained by people, but the attitude that "pro wrestling is silly" seeps into the presentation, and that seeps into the perception. People find it hard to really develop an affinity for silly stuff from the get-go -- they already have silly stuff in their lives, by and large.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is far more likely you will attract people with a dramatic and engaging product with stakes. That is your goal as a promoter -- to put as many asses in seats as possible. I'd wager a bet that most of the people who like this comedy stuff were already fans of wrestling before they started watching it. This is a problem when it comes to growing -- which wrestling arguably needs to do since it is in a low patch right now.
So the reason you don't like Joey Ryan's dongstyle is because you don't think other people will like it?

Was wrestling in a low patch when Mick Foley was pulling Mr. Socko out of his pants?
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike adamle View Post
So the reason you don't like Joey Ryan's dongstyle is because you don't think other people will like it?

Was wrestling in a low patch when Mick Foley was pulling Mr. Socko out of his pants?
What? No. Stop putting words into people's mouths -- it's poor form. I also don't get your second point. You might as well have said "Oh, so you don't like Michael Bay movies? I guess you don't like blowjobs, music and ice-cream either."
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
What? No. Stop putting words into people's mouths -- it's poor form. I also don't get your second point. You might as well have said "Oh, so you don't like Michael Bay movies? I guess you don't like blowjobs, music and ice-cream either."
Naw that would make no sense if I said that. You're just trying to dodge what I said because it made perfect sense and you don't want to admit it because it doesn't fit your narrative. Very sad and childish.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:22 PM   #9
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Watching that vid reminded me how great Santino's theme song was........
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:51 PM   #10
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The thing is, if you like your wrestling to be dramatic, immersive, believable and well written in 2017 then Joey Ryan flipping people with his penis is the least of your problems.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:01 PM   #11
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Noid's right about dramatic wrestling, at its core, being able to draw people in and comedy wrestling not. I just don't think Joey Ryan is significant enough to ruin shit. I don't even consider what he does wrestling. It's more like just an embarrassingly bad improv comedy show for the easily amused. Good for them I guess. It's not about to headline WrestleMania or anything though.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:03 PM   #12
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Oh, I agree with both of those points. Joey Ryan is insignificant. I think I agree with that earlier when Destor said it was simply symptomatic. I just don't appreciate it as wrestling, comedy or art. I'd prefer indy wrestler to provide what WWE is lacking, honestly -- not mimicking it.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:08 PM   #13
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Stuff like House of Horrors, Punjabi Prison and WWE Champion MEGASTAR OVERBOY Mahal is much more impactful on wrestling looking like shit imo. Ryan is a popular indy act and fans that attend those shows pop for it, it's whatever. How do you feel about Toru Yano?
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:20 PM   #14
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Stuff like House of Horrors, Punjabi Prison and WWE Champion MEGASTAR OVERBOY Mahal is much more impactful on wrestling looking like shit imo. Ryan is a popular indy act and fans that attend those shows pop for it, it's whatever. How do you feel about Toru Yano?
Yeah, of course it is. That doesn't make what Ryan is doing good. I honestly haven't seen that much of Yano. From what I have seen, he's not really my cup of tea, but I think of him more as a "drunken style" wrestler, if that makes sense? He uses his goofiness to get his opponents on edge and play down how threatening he is. If that's a misread, then fuck him, because it will make him harder for me to enjoy if I ever do get hardcore into Japan, haha.

Swinging someone around by your supernaturally strong dick is not the same as being unassuming. To me anyway. I guess you can call your apples oranges if you want.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:30 PM   #15
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Yano is masterfully done. Harms no one's credibility and everything has a logic. Even if its over top it isnt magical.
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:22 PM   #16
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Yano is masterfully done. Harms no one's credibility and everything has a logic. Even if its over top it isnt magical.
This was my general sentiment from what I'd gathered.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:43 PM   #17
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Only Yano match I've seen was his G1 match against Michael Elgin and it was perfectly fine.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:23 AM   #18
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Only Yano match I've seen was his G1 match against Michael Elgin and it was perfectly fine.
If you're ever bored and have 10 minutes to spare, watch the Yano V Omega from the G1 too. Omegas background in doing comedy spots works great in the match.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:10 PM   #19
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Honestly heres where cornette is full of shit. He says guys like Ryan and Omega shouldnt be in the business blah blah blah but Vince is okay even tho he shits on the business far worse (i kno he isnt a HUGE fan of Vinces but never does he forsake vince the same way)

Sid used to fake injuries to play softball but Corny doesnt bury him nearly as bad as omega for the ankle email.

Its just nonsense from Cornette.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:21 PM   #20
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He respects what Vince did as a businessman to make his empire and doesn't respect anything that Ryan or Omega has done. Where's the nonsense come in?
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:24 PM   #21
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You cant have it both ways. Omega busts his ass and is one of the best wrestlers in the world. But according to Cornette it doesnt matter what he does he wrestled a child so fuck that guy. But vince built an empire so he can make a mockery of wrestling pretty much daily with his horse shit product.

What about Sid? Why does he get away with faking injuries to play baseball. Likely cuz they are friends.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:32 PM   #22
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I don't think Cornette has ever excused Vince making a mockery of wrestling. He talks shit about it constantly.
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:35 PM   #23
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I don't think Cornette has ever excused Vince making a mockery of wrestling. He talks shit about it constantly.
Yeah, basically this. People get blinders up when they talk about Cornette. Just look at the replies you get from people who immediately go to the false "old man yelling at clouds" memes, when what Cornette is really doing is calling for logic.

I think his spiels against Omega, whilst they are fun, are very harsh. Omega is overrated and does seem to be a bit of a dolt, frankly, but if you black-balled everybody he does dumb stuff, we'd have Xavier Woods taken out for the trust fall, Mick Foley taken out for the dick flip (although that might be for the best at this point), Shawn Michaels for the Curtain Call (HHH wouldn't be a loss), etc.

I think Cornette directly attributes the death of wrestling (and keep in mind he is speaking in hyperbolic terms, you idiots who would jump on this and be like "well, why does the WWE still even exist then?") to Vince McMahon's responses to the steroid scandal in the 90s -- claiming to be Disney and put smiles on faces. This idea that he exonerates Vince yet would punish Omega is a bit of a false assertion.

A better comparison would be Pete Dunne. Corny loves his work, yet he does dumb video game shit. He's probably just unaware of that though, and would blast Dunne for that, if it's as goofy as Omega's (if it's just dressing up or presenting that aesthetic, that's different to actually trying to do hadoukens and shit). Or Jay Lethal -- Cornette loves him now, but Black Machismo was pretty dumb. That being said, it was Jay Lethal putting on an act, and not so much "OMG! This act is real!"

I dunno, I think the accusations of hypocrisy are exaggerated conveniences for those who would try to circumvent Corny's actual points. And, as I've said in the past, it seems like members of the IWC actually have problems wrapping their head around it. A few people might get insulted by this, but I think he's just generally smarter than most people. Not even in a wrestling sense, but in a general intellect kind of way. I don't subscribe to all his views, but his logical processing is just on a level that sends people who disagree with him, usually, into spirals of illogical straw-men and emotional rambling.

I think that's part of the reason I love the man so much. He usually proves his subject a fool. Joey Ryan retorted to calling Cornette a homophobe (Cornette's pretty left-wing), Kenny King responded with homophobia. Omega's been the classiest of the lot and has actually tried to take a moral high road.

TL;DR: Cornette is pretty much right about everything, you dummies. Stop resorting to straw-men because he makes your indy darlings butt-hurt. He is too extreme on Omega though, and that gives his detractors ample room to do their "Look what an asshole he is!" thing, as if that somehow discredits his points.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I think his spiels against Omega, whilst they are fun, are very harsh. Omega is overrated and does seem to be a bit of a dolt, frankly, but if you black-balled everybody he does dumb stuff, we'd have Xavier Woods taken out for the trust fall, Mick Foley taken out for the dick flip (although that might be for the best at this point), Shawn Michaels for the Curtain Call (HHH wouldn't be a loss), etc.


TL;DR: Cornette is pretty much right about everything, you dummies. Stop resorting to straw-men because he makes your indy darlings butt-hurt. He is too extreme on Omega though, and that gives his detractors ample room to do their "Look what an asshole he is!" thing, as if that somehow discredits his points.
First of all, there's nothing you can say to prove to me Omega is over-rated.

He is one hell of a fucking worker. The problem is, nowadays, people LOVE to be contrarian to the "indy darlings", and don't put much thought into it. New Japan is the best thing going right now, and Omega is one of the guys leading the charge. It's the truth. Nothing overrated about that. Also, minus one slightly homophobic post to Cornette I don't know if Omega is much of a dolt. I've heard him in interviews and he comes across as incredibly intelligent. Fuck, the guy can speak Japanese.

And as I said I love Cornette, and agree with him a lot. In fact, we both agree on Cornette being great and that he is too harsh on Omega. You just gobble Cornette's knob too hard. Think for yourself Noid.
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:02 PM   #25
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First of all, there's nothing you can say to prove to me Omega is over-rated.

He is one hell of a fucking worker. The problem is, nowadays, people LOVE to be contrarian to the "indy darlings", and don't put much thought into it. New Japan is the best thing going right now, and Omega is one of the guys leading the charge. It's the truth. Nothing overrated about that. Also, minus one slightly homophobic post to Cornette I don't know if Omega is much of a dolt. I've heard him in interviews and he comes across as incredibly intelligent. Fuck, the guy can speak Japanese.

And as I said I love Cornette, and agree with him a lot. In fact, we both agree on Cornette being great and that he is too harsh on Omega. You just gobble Cornette's knob too hard. Think for yourself Noid.
When I say "overrated" I don't mean that he's terrible. I just mean overrated in the sense that people claim he's Jesus, when it's very clear to me that he's not. If he proves to be, I'll eat my words, but I don't think he will, and I think time will bear that out. The Okada/Omega match I saw was **** worthy. That's a tremendous compliment. To me, ***** is perfect, and very few things are actually perfect, and they need to absorb historical significance to earn that rating retrospectively. For example, we can say that about Austin/Hart. If nothing had come from that match, we may not see it the same light, you know?

I think Omega is very good. I'm not fighting you on that point. I think his faces are dumb, and yes that is important. But it's ironic you say that the other camp doesn't put much thought in, because that's exactly my criticism of the majority of the "IWC": They were so keen to call it the greatest match ever that it was like they've never seen anything else.

When I say Omega is a dolt, it is projecting a little. I obviously don't know the guy. The interviews I've heard are just him justifying dumb shit in matches that can cripple people. He might be a genius, I've just never bought into the "Omega is smart" stuff circulating on the internet. When I hear him talk, I hear a skater trying really hard not to say the word "radical," but that might just be me. Whatever, it's a dumb point to contend.

I kind of balk at the "think for yourself" comment. You can't know this about me, but it's kind of an ironic statement from my perspective. That's your view. I'd throw the same thing at people who think that geeky wrestling is instantly good. My biggest complaint with the anti-logic crowd is that they don't think for themselves enough, and defer to memes and group-think in order to respond to Cornette's individualistic claims. But whatever.
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Old 08-24-2017, 04:10 PM   #26
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Yeah, basically this. People get blinders up when they talk about Cornette. Just look at the replies you get from people who immediately go to the false "old man yelling at clouds" memes, when what Cornette is really doing is calling for logic.

I think his spiels against Omega, whilst they are fun, are very harsh. Omega is overrated and does seem to be a bit of a dolt, frankly, but if you black-balled everybody he does dumb stuff, we'd have Xavier Woods taken out for the trust fall, Mick Foley taken out for the dick flip (although that might be for the best at this point), Shawn Michaels for the Curtain Call (HHH wouldn't be a loss), etc.

I think Cornette directly attributes the death of wrestling (and keep in mind he is speaking in hyperbolic terms, you idiots who would jump on this and be like "well, why does the WWE still even exist then?") to Vince McMahon's responses to the steroid scandal in the 90s -- claiming to be Disney and put smiles on faces. This idea that he exonerates Vince yet would punish Omega is a bit of a false assertion.

A better comparison would be Pete Dunne. Corny loves his work, yet he does dumb video game shit. He's probably just unaware of that though, and would blast Dunne for that, if it's as goofy as Omega's (if it's just dressing up or presenting that aesthetic, that's different to actually trying to do hadoukens and shit). Or Jay Lethal -- Cornette loves him now, but Black Machismo was pretty dumb. That being said, it was Jay Lethal putting on an act, and not so much "OMG! This act is real!"

I dunno, I think the accusations of hypocrisy are exaggerated conveniences for those who would try to circumvent Corny's actual points. And, as I've said in the past, it seems like members of the IWC actually have problems wrapping their head around it. A few people might get insulted by this, but I think he's just generally smarter than most people. Not even in a wrestling sense, but in a general intellect kind of way. I don't subscribe to all his views, but his logical processing is just on a level that sends people who disagree with him, usually, into spirals of illogical straw-men and emotional rambling.

I think that's part of the reason I love the man so much. He usually proves his subject a fool. Joey Ryan retorted to calling Cornette a homophobe (Cornette's pretty left-wing), Kenny King responded with homophobia. Omega's been the classiest of the lot and has actually tried to take a moral high road.

TL;DR: Cornette is pretty much right about everything, you dummies. Stop resorting to straw-men because he makes your indy darlings butt-hurt. He is too extreme on Omega though, and that gives his detractors ample room to do their "Look what an asshole he is!" thing, as if that somehow discredits his points.
It sounds like you think anyone that tries something new is dumb. Maybe they should all just rehash old Jim Cornette storylines to get your approval? I know that's all they care about anyways is your approval, not the money they make from the business they are in or having fun and getting the fans into the product they're pushing.
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:08 PM   #27
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It sounds like you think anyone that tries something new is dumb. Maybe they should all just rehash old Jim Cornette storylines to get your approval? I know that's all they care about anyways is your approval, not the money they make from the business they are in or having fun and getting the fans into the product they're pushing.
Nope. I love innovation. Keeping things the same for the sake of it is dumb, unless it is working. Most of Cornette's ideas, as much as I love him, were ideas that had previously worked. That being said, ironically, Cornette was an innovative and progressive personality in wrestling. This is just wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:33 PM   #28
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But yet, he won't ever say "VINCE SHOULD NEVER BE IN THE BUSINESS WHAT A PIECE OF FUCKING GARBAGE"

As I said, I know he's not Vince's biggest fan, but his hate for Omega is retarded.

FTR I fucking love Jim Cornette, he's one of the true beauties of wrestling. But he's just ridiculous sometimes.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:34 PM   #29
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As far as Sid, I've also heard Cornette talk about how he was a guy who drew solely on his size. I don't know anything about this fake injury stuff.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:35 PM   #30
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lol Sid's love for softball season is legendary.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:37 PM   #31
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Corny loved Sid's look "You couldn't draw a guy to look like that!" hated Spivey though
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:38 PM   #32
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And he called Sid out for the fake injuries and softball season but only in passing. Never with the same vitriol.

I'm just saying if he's going to be so vehement about certain things I'd like to see some consistency.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:38 PM   #33
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Listen, I also think his hate for Omega is ridiculous. I don't think the way he expresses his feelings toward people have to match completely though. He's talked enough shit about Vince and what wrestling has become under his watch that I think we can infer that he thinks wrestling would have been better without him.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:40 PM   #34
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Listen Fan I just have higher standards than you, okay.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:40 PM   #35
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Do you really think he's held back on Vince any feelings he's had for Omega for some reason?
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:41 PM   #36
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What reason do you think he may be more lenient on Vince than on Omega?
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:43 PM   #37
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It's more like... how does he hate Omega SO MUCH, but he doesn't really hate Vince, just isn't his biggest fan.

Like he outright says Omega doesn't deserve to be in wrestling. I've never heard him say that about Vince. I mean we can infer he's not huge on Vince, but he doesn't come with the same vehemence. I just don't get how he hates Omega that much, but Vince he doesn't agree with.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:44 PM   #38
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I dunno with Vince it's always that deep down hopes he gets hired in some way down the road. Maybe in developmental again, who knows? You know how these fucking carnies are.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:47 PM   #39
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Why do people talk more shit about Trump nowadays than they do Hitler?

One is a current point of contention and the other isn't.

He's spent years talking shit about Vince and the guys he's surrounded himself with. It's all old news. Omega is "now". Also, he's put more blame on the guys Vince surrounds himself with than Vince. Omega doesn't have that luxury.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:48 PM   #40
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Vince is as relevant as he's ever been no?
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