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Old 01-30-2018, 08:32 PM   #41
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I think a snowflake got their feelings hurt somehow.
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:36 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
This isnt a $10/hr job. Youre paid on your value. If you think the top woman has the same value as the top male id question your math skills


It's more like a commission in entertainment or sports. You perform well, you get paid more. If you want a better packet, sell more.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:14 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I think a snowflake got their feelings hurt somehow.
Stop using buzzwords you don't understand.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:15 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ClockShot View Post
I'm just sick of Stephanie McMahon.
And have been since 2001.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:16 PM   #45
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Hey Theo, why so angry?

I suggest taking a deep breath, and filling your gaping vagina with a cucumber.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:18 PM   #46
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I remember really liking Spice Girl Fyre but that pic of her makes her face look kinda fugly.

Need to take a trip to Google images to see if she's as hot as I remember.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:40 PM   #47
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After cleanup I can confirm that yes, yes she was.
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:54 PM   #48
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I find myself to be quite entertained by the variety of responses in this discussion. People don't seem to have a strong opinion one way or the other. Except for Noid who seems to dwell in the world of conspiracy theories and fantasy. I got that impression after reading his previous entires on this board.
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:11 PM   #49
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Baron Corbin makes twice as much as Ronda Rousey now.
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:18 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
women don't deserve equal pay. Theyre a side show at best. When theyre merch sales make up for half the top 10 we can talk.
You could argue that it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy; the stronger the push the better the merch sales, the more range you get, the more merch sales.

Difficult to say the “women” haven’t been pushed though.

The bigger contention is probably along the lines of where top female pay stacks against lower end of the men’s; do The Ascension draw better than Becky/Bayley/Sasha/Charlotte?
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:08 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
women don't deserve equal pay. Theyre a side show at best. When theyre merch sales make up for half the top 10 we can talk.
Hogwash. It is 2018 and we as a community of wrestling fans are above this.
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:24 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmletteDuFromage View Post
Hogwash. It is 2018 and we as a community of wrestling fans are above this.
But if you can prove that women don't draw and sell merch like men, than why would you pay them the same?

Morality and progressiveness has nothing to do with Destor's argument, it just comes down to brass tax.

However, out of all athletic endeavours, you could argue women can eventually make the same as men, since it's a scripted sport largely based on charisma. Whereas barriers face women in other sports because frankly, the quality of play can't physically/biologically ever match mens.

If what the lads are saying about the women being ratings draws is true, then we could start seeing the pay gap decrease in the industry.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Hey Theo, why so angry?

I suggest taking a deep breath, and filling your gaping vagina with a cucumber.
I'm damn near 40 and I've had enough of smug smark-ass cocksuckers flexing their man-boners online acting like they're making these breathtaking intellectual points when all they're doing is parroting Dave "Emperor Smarkington I" Meltzer's sanctimonious talking points.

Also I prefer eggplants, they're more loving and generally smoother.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:19 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
But if you can prove that women don't draw and sell merch like men, than why would you pay them the same?

Morality and progressiveness has nothing to do with Destor's argument, it just comes down to brass tax.

However, out of all athletic endeavours, you could argue women can eventually make the same as men, since it's a scripted sport largely based on charisma. Whereas barriers face women in other sports because frankly, the quality of play can't physically/biologically ever match mens.

If what the lads are saying about the women being ratings draws is true, then we could start seeing the pay gap decrease in the industry.
If I remember reading, there was a huge complaint recently about WWE paying their female talent well below their actual value. Got alleged by a former WWE and well known celebrity makeup artist who managed to find out some of the pay scales in the WWE.

She did make the mistake of comparing Nikki Bella to Brock in terms of top star power and pay but if you take out both and Cena for comparisons, the highest paid female performer makes very low midcard level of money at best ($200-$300k). Then you have a bunch still on their NXT contracts ($25k range) which gets eaten a lot because of traveling stuff.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:24 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo Dious View Post
Stop using buzzwords you don't understand.
Theo needs a safe space from all the white knights who don't like bad television. "Listen to them whinge," he whinges, with no appreciation for irony.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:27 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo Dious View Post
I'm damn near 40 and I've had enough of smug smark-ass cocksuckers flexing their man-boners online acting like they're making these breathtaking intellectual points when all they're doing is parroting Dave "Emperor Smarkington I" Meltzer's sanctimonious talking points.

Also I prefer eggplants, they're more loving and generally smoother.
Get off my lawn! *Theo shakes fist at the sky* Damn millennials and their synonymous points. It's almost like independent sources can lead two individuals to the same position.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:36 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
But if you can prove that women don't draw and sell merch like men, than why would you pay them the same?

Morality and progressiveness has nothing to do with Destor's argument, it just comes down to brass tax.

However, out of all athletic endeavours, you could argue women can eventually make the same as men, since it's a scripted sport largely based on charisma. Whereas barriers face women in other sports because frankly, the quality of play can't physically/biologically ever match mens.

If what the lads are saying about the women being ratings draws is true, then we could start seeing the pay gap decrease in the industry.
Generally agree, but I think the idea that women physically can't do it is antiquated. Been reading a lot of myths about women's sports. It can make a fun afternoon. Turns out women aren't actually physically shit, athletically, and it's a bit of thing that men have tried to make their domain just because grrr, men.

Don't get me wrong though, I don't think the current crop of female talent is better than the men. The best workers they have, in my opinion, are Brock, AJ, Joe, Cena and Orton, but all of them have been doing it since the 20th century. But I'd also probably contend that the cream of the All Japan women in the 90's were better in-ring than most of the men on the roster are today. As you said, it's charisma-based, but the athletic part is something that the women can get down fine to have matches with ever women. You can get plenty of ***** matches and drawing fights out of them. That's just not happening right now.

Don't even really want to argue, just want to throw out the men > women at sports is kind of being challenged these days. It's quite possibly an idea we have that shapes how we perceive the intersection of sports and gender, as opposed to a true dynamic that we're responding to. But whatever, I've only done light reading. Largely I agree with the point of star-power in this business largely being charisma-fueled, and that being the most important aspect. And that's why Ronda got more over than basically anyone in UFC, until Conor came along.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:43 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
If I remember reading, there was a huge complaint recently about WWE paying their female talent well below their actual value. Got alleged by a former WWE and well known celebrity makeup artist who managed to find out some of the pay scales in the WWE.

She did make the mistake of comparing Nikki Bella to Brock in terms of top star power and pay but if you take out both and Cena for comparisons, the highest paid female performer makes very low midcard level of money at best ($200-$300k). Then you have a bunch still on their NXT contracts ($25k range) which gets eaten a lot because of traveling stuff.
I'm not saying that Nikki Bella is anywhere close to as valuable as Brock in terms of star power, ring skill, charisma or even fucking mic skills, but the comparison of the top paid male star and the top paid female star, on the surface, is a fine one. If you're a company telling people that your men are equal to women, then the idea that your two biggest stars are getting paid so extremely far apart (30 times) then it's not fair to say that they are really equal.

Where Destor and I disagreed earlier is over two different things. He's saying that women aren't equally as valuable to the men right now. I agree with that. What I'm saying is that if you present them as valuable and tell them that they are valuable, they are going to want to be treated as valuable at some point.

It's like when Ultimate Warrior asked Vince for the same amount of money as Hogan is making, because he was pushed to that level, on a much more disparate scale. But that's why I think treating the women are a special attraction is actually a better idea than jamming this idea that Asuka and Shinsuke Nakamura won equal matches down people's throats, because talent and the media will eventually get behind that idea, because that's the kayfabe narrative WWE is pushing, and it's bad PR for them to come out and say "Guys, we don't really value Charlotte as much as Randy Orton. Don't be ridiculous."
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:32 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Generally agree, but I think the idea that women physically can't do it is antiquated. Been reading a lot of myths about women's sports. It can make a fun afternoon. Turns out women aren't actually physically shit, athletically, and it's a bit of thing that men have tried to make their domain just because grrr, men.
Women aren't shit athletically. Just, if you put the best women against the best men at sports, the best men will win.

The US women's soccer team got beaten by a grade 10 high school men's team for Christ's sake. http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-fc-d...ional-team-5-2

Now... I like WMMA, and I watch it, and Ronda Rousey proved women can be HUGE draws. But are all the people clamouring for a decreased pay gap going to buy tickets and merch for when these women are given the same drawing opportunities as male athletes. Or, are the people complaining not particularly huge sports fans, and would continue not watching sports once this happens?

Because I would be willing to bet that the bulk of the demo that watches sports doesn't give a fuck about women's sports (Re: Gertner), and no amount of pushing and posturing an agenda is going to change that.

Plus... I love how being good at sports and making lots of money means EQUALITY. It all depends what you value in society. If you value the almighty dollar and being perceived as great at sports, then I guess this some how represents some kind of oppression.

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Old 01-31-2018, 07:34 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
If I remember reading, there was a huge complaint recently about WWE paying their female talent well below their actual value. Got alleged by a former WWE and well known celebrity makeup artist who managed to find out some of the pay scales in the WWE.

She did make the mistake of comparing Nikki Bella to Brock in terms of top star power and pay but if you take out both and Cena for comparisons, the highest paid female performer makes very low midcard level of money at best ($200-$300k). Then you have a bunch still on their NXT contracts ($25k range) which gets eaten a lot because of traveling stuff.
Well they have the option of not working with the WWE and pursuing another, far more fruitful career. Or even better, negotiating a superior contract.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:43 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Well they have the option of not working with the WWE and pursuing another, far more fruitful career. Or even better, negotiating a superior contract.
This is a good point.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:52 PM   #62
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Seriously, I've tried watching the women's world cup and I can't get through it. After watching stuff like the Champions League or SerieA it's such a slog.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:53 PM   #63
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Hogwash. It is 2018 and we as a community of wrestling fans are above this.
No, we are being realistic.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:54 PM   #64
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Women aren't shit athletically. Just, if you put the best women against the best men at sports, the best men will win.

The US women's soccer team got beaten by a grade 10 high school men's team for Christ's sake. http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-fc-d...ional-team-5-2

Now... I like WMMA, and I watch it, and Ronda Rousey proved women can be HUGE draws. But are all the people clamouring for a decreased pay gap going to buy tickets and merch for when these women are given the same drawing opportunities as male athletes. Or, are the people complaining not particularly huge sports fans, and would continue not watching sports once this happens?

Because I would be willing to bet that the bulk of the demo that watches sports doesn't give a fuck about women's sports (Re: Gertner), and no amount of pushing and posturing an agenda is going to change that.

Plus... I love how being good at sports and making lots of money means EQUALITY. It all depends what you value in society. If you value the almighty dollar and being perceived as great at sports, then I guess this some how represents some kind of oppression.
Women's sports are fucking horrendous.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:57 PM   #65
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How anyone can watch soccer at all is beyond me.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:59 PM   #66
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How anyone can watch soccer at all is beyond me.
my brother from another mother.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:02 PM   #67
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Also, while the women's division is far better than its ever been, Asuka is the only one who can consistently have great matches. Thats largely due to experience and where she learned her craft. All the other women have had their faif share of duds, despite occasionally putting on great bouts as well. Charlotte is probably the only one who comes close, though I think Ember will prove herself to be consistently good as well.

Have to say I have been very disappointed with Becky thus far. Becky vs Sasha in NXT is one of, if not my favorite match from this whole movement, but I have yet to see a performance even half as good from her since. She was putting in work in that match, so it wasn't just sasha carrying. I don't know if her style just doesn't mesh well with the main roster "formula", but she hasn't impressed me much.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:06 PM   #68
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That's largely been why I wasn't pissing myself about Asuka coming up. Who was she going to wrestle? I'll say that I think Natalya is really good. Can't really disagree with the Becky comments, honestly. Not sure if it's just the formula she's working week-to-week, but she hasn't really clicked in the ring with anyone since. I did like the initial Triple Threat for the Women's Title at WrestleMania though.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:16 PM   #69
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Well the thing is that while some of the better women haven't been 100% consistent with their performances, several of them are good enough where its almost a lock that asuka will get a really great match out of them.

We saw it on raw with asuka vs sasha and that was only 10 minutes. Imagine what they could do with a ppv match.

And for some reason I think a match with asuka is where we could see the old becky return, so I'm hoping asuka challenges charlotte and moves to smackdown.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:20 PM   #70
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Personally I would have asuka beat charlotte at mania and hold the belt all the way til the next mania where she faces raw champion rhonda rousey. Thats the money match, as far as the womens division is concerned.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:24 PM   #71
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Also great potential for a rhonda vs bayzler fued.

Bayzler could debut on raw attacking rhonda. Bitter at the fact that rhonda was hotshotted to stardom because of her celebrity despite the fact that bayzler had been working hard for several years now on the independants.

Honestly I'm rooting super hard for rhonda. You could tell she couldnt keep the smile off her face at the rumble and that made me happy. That combined with the fact they have had to force her to leave the performance center everyday makes me believe she really could become a great performer.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:40 PM   #72
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Asuka going after Charlotte makes enough sense for me. I think there's potential in Ronda vs. Charlotte too. It really should be a "main event" women's division of Asuka, Ronda, Charlotte, Nattie and maybe Sasha. Everyone else feels "mid-card."
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:44 PM   #73
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I really loved that Nitro Girl with the short hair, btw.
Think her name was Spice
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:15 PM   #74
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She was banging Rey Mysterio in WCW
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:15 PM   #75
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Personally I would have asuka beat charlotte at mania and hold the belt all the way til the next mania where she faces raw champion rhonda rousey. Thats the money match, as far as the womens division is concerned.
That would be ideal. I can see WWE blowing through that match the month after WrestleMania though.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:24 PM   #76
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She was banging Rey Mysterio in WCW
For some reason, that just seems really weird to me.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:25 PM   #77
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I was looking at the Nitro Girls on Wikipedia, and Shawn Michaels' son just turned 18.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:26 PM   #78
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Probably got great genetics. Wonder if he will get into wrestling after college or whatever.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:32 PM   #79
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Unlike sports in general wrestling (and prize fighting) are the only places athletics could see equal pay. You can reasonably figure out who is drawing internally with the data they have.

So if you get over it should be easy to get paid.

A WNBA athlete could never hope for the same chance.

With that said womens wrestling just isnt there yet.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:41 PM   #80
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Don't women get paid the same amount for major tennis events? I read that somewhere, but it doesn't change the point of your argument.
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