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Old 06-18-2018, 04:48 PM   #1
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Farewell to Asuka's Career

She is basically Becky and Naomi now, a good entrance by a dumb babyface that takes losses.

Her NXT run meant nothing, especially since the 2 woman's champions currently were managers of tag teams in NXT while Asuka was winning matches.

Women's revolution sure still looks like Vince pushing cute blondes to me.
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Old 06-18-2018, 05:05 PM   #2
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What do you mean her run meant nothing?
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Old 06-18-2018, 05:33 PM   #3
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What do you mean her run meant nothing?
They spent years building her up to put over the already most over female on the roster. Now she is losing to a girl that was only a manager in NXT. Asuka was supposedly so great in NXT during that time, but it turns out its just cause she never had to fight a hair dresser turned manager of a tag team that never won any titles...
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Old 06-18-2018, 05:57 PM   #4
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She can't stay undefeated forever.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:36 PM   #5
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She can't stay undefeated forever.
No, nor should she. But she gave up the NXT title without losing it, to keep the undefeated streak.

Storyline wise she choose to sign with Raw, makes no sense she would suddenly choose Smackdown just because of Charlotte.

They hyped the Women's Rumble hard, to the point it closed the show. Not having the payoff of the Rumble winner complete that story by becoming champ is a waste.

They planted seeds for her to be the one to give Alexa her comeuppance and be the undefeated champion.

This would lead to a championship match where she would lose the title and the streak, and they have their next breakout woman.

They threw all that away for what?

What did Charlotte gain by winning? It wouldn't have hurt to have her lose.

Are they building to a women's main event match at Mania 35 of Charlotte and Ronda?

If that is the plan, have Ronda beat Asuka and end her streak.

Then there is Carmella, they had her cash in and beat Charlotte after Charlotte got beat up by 2 chicks Asuka destroyed for a year straight.

Now that Carmella has been good, you don't want to pull the plug on her too early, so again, Asuka eats another loss and doesn't become champion again.

Charlotte could have defended successfully at Mania against anybody else, Iconics could have debuted the same way 2 days later, Carmella could then have cashed in the same way, and we could be exactly where we are on Smackdown without throwing away Asuka's credibility.

Then there is the Raw side, which is worse.

WWE decided what the hell, let's give bully Nia a sudden face turn because she can be a fat advocate for Be A Star, even though she sucks.

That lasts a month and a half, and OF COURSE that doesn't work, so WWE sacrifices another chance at building up a new star by having say Ember Moon win MITB, and the MITB match itself, just so they can reset everything back to where it was, meaning Alexa Bliss is champion again.

I love Alexa Bliss, and she is a good bail out for the shitshow they booked themselves in to.

On Raw, Asuka could be the undefeated champ with the slow build to say a Survivor Series match where Ronda could take the title and the streak, and with it being the first big 4 PPV after Brock leaves, WWE would still have that big fight feel match.

They essentially gave that all up cause they thought Nia Jax was good.

Ending the streak isn't the problem by itself, just a byproduct of horrible shortsighted booking.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:44 PM   #6
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Yeah, it was all very confusing. I'm interested to see where they go with Asuka now. Maybe there's a heel turn in the works, but they might think that's a bit too much like Shinsuke. I don't think she's completely dead, but she's certainly lost her aura. That's not to say she can't get something back, but yeah, she'll probably be in a Halloween Dance Contest with Naomi by October.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:20 PM   #7
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Not sure who really got over with run, Flair? No. Asuka? No.....Carmella?
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:48 PM   #8
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Not sure who really got over with run, Flair? No. Asuka? No.....Carmella?
Carmella, it didnt hurt Charlotte. It certainly didnt get the Iconics over, and Asuka I dont think ever gets it back. Sure, she can just be another female on the roster, might even get a turn or 2 with a title, but thats the point. She was built to be more than just another female on the roster.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:48 PM   #9
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Carmella is actually entertaining and one sentence asian isn't.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:02 PM   #10
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I get the theory of where you're coming from, xrodmuc316, but I'd contend that any of this means anything anyway. I was always down on Asuka coming up because she would only have the women on the main roster to work with in the way that they work. She got to have a great match at Mania and she looked really good in the highlights I saw of MITB. Well, until that bullshit racist finish with the dude that by all logic shouldn't be on the roster.

Asuka's just another player, but it was always going to be that way, and it is going to be that way for anyone else that comes in or comes up.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:30 PM   #11
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I get the theory of where you're coming from, xrodmuc316, but I'd contend that any of this means anything anyway. I was always down on Asuka coming up because she would only have the women on the main roster to work with in the way that they work. She got to have a great match at Mania and she looked really good in the highlights I saw of MITB. Well, until that bullshit racist finish with the dude that by all logic shouldn't be on the roster.

Asuka's just another player, but it was always going to be that way, and it is going to be that way for anyone else that comes in or comes up.
That is the problem too, unless anyone is going to be more than just another player, then they shouldnt come up.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:53 PM   #12
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But that's literally everybody now. They've even managed to have Brock beat up so many unspecial people that he doesn't feel special now. John Cena doesn't even feel special. They're doing their best to make Ronda just part of the scenery and daily grind. I completely agree with you philosophically, but who actually feels like more than just another dude or just another chick?
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:16 PM   #13
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But that's literally everybody now. They've even managed to have Brock beat up so many unspecial people that he doesn't feel special now. John Cena doesn't even feel special. They're doing their best to make Ronda just part of the scenery and daily grind. I completely agree with you philosophically, but who actually feels like more than just another dude or just another chick?
You are right. I made a post in the Takeover thread that 3 years ago Aleister Black would have felt really special. Now though I can't really get behind him as a star because I know WWE will blow it once he does get called up.

Nobody in NXT feels like a breakout star, not because they aren't good, but because we know the end game is they won't be a star on the main roster anyways.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:18 PM   #14
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Yeah, my head does this weird thing like "Oh shit, you can build around this," but then have to remind myself that they don't do that and they're better off in NXT, but then NXT feels smaller than WWE so it's this endless cycle of a false promise.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:48 PM   #15
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Yeah, my head does this weird thing like "Oh shit, you can build around this," but then have to remind myself that they don't do that and they're better off in NXT, but then NXT feels smaller than WWE so it's this endless cycle of a false promise.
I remember Finn as NXT Champ making the point that part of him didn't want to get called up, because they had something special going in NXT.

Turns out he was right. He got a solid month when he got called up, regrettably was injured, and hasn't been given anything good for the 15 months since he returned minus one night vs AJ.

It's shameful
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Old 06-19-2018, 01:01 AM   #16
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Not just Asuka losing but the way she lost was fucking stupid. And I'm not even talking about the Ellsworth distraction.

Ellsworth causing a DQ at least keeps Asuka looking strong and gets Carmella over as a conniving heel.

Carmella winning via roll-up off the distraction would have at least been SOMETHING. Still makes Asuka look beatable but the "caught of guard" excuse lets her keep a SLIVER of credibility.

What good does having her knock Asuka out with her finisher do? It kills what credibility Asuka had left all to... put over Carmella's finisher I guess? She's a cocky, "cheap win" bitch of a heel. Why are they making sure to have her win somewhat clean at the expense of people whose credibility actually IS dependent on looking strong in the ring? It's beyond stupid.
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Old 06-19-2018, 01:40 AM   #17
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WWE has never understood how the babyface being stupid hurts both the babyface and does nothing for the heel.
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Old 06-19-2018, 01:45 AM   #18
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Every babyface is interchangeable with every other babyface, and every heel is interchangeable with every other heel. Carmella could have been Ruby Riott and Asuka could have been Charlotte. One month it surely will be. It really doesn't matter. And WWE exists in a fantasy world where everyone's as credible as anyone else on any other night. In WWE canon, Carmella is a fucking ninja, man. When she hits that magic finisher, you're done. Especially when you let your guard down during a fight because you hear someone's music or see someone approaching the outside of the ring.
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Old 06-19-2018, 01:46 AM   #19
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Ronda Rousey will sell for Alexa Bliss.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:24 AM   #20
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Asuka is done, she won't even have a match at Summerslam. Time to retire
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:46 AM   #21
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RIP!
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:49 AM   #22
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:06 PM   #23
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All I can say is she looks retarded.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:28 PM   #24
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I never cared about her or any of the divas anyway. This revolution is all a sham and they're all still interchangeable in a heartbeat.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:21 AM   #25
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I never cared about her or any of the divas anyway. This revolution is all a sham and they're all still interchangeable in a heartbeat.
Considering they just jobbed out clean their last NXT champion to a first round loser from the Mae Young Classic makes your point precisely.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:20 PM   #26
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I hate the WWE's convention of having dumb babyfaces who stand around with their backs to their opponents and forget the awareness of being in a fight. The finish to Asuka/Carmella at Extreme Rules was awful, and I feel a rant coming on.

First of all, Carmella is not very good. I'm sure she works hard, but booking her to win the Money in the Bank was short-sighted. She was never going to be ready within that time frame. Not only that, but that's a symptom of not booking the women around their strengths and weaknesses instead of obtusely jamming them into shadows of the boys' programs. The first-ever women's Ladder Match could have been a huge deal between two rivals that had drawn you into their program. They should have been looking more to Razor/Shawn for that inspiration, and found talent that could pull off the ladder gimmick, as opposed to having the ladder gimmick and hoping women could pull it off. These gimmicks are already watered down because of how routinely and arbitrarily they're attached to the calendar, and now you want to duplicate them further to diminishing returns? Any novelty it has being the women doing it plays counterpoint to the philosophy you are trying to present that they are not afterthoughts. The WWE's women's movement has been awfully handled.

Secondly, you could be making people give a shit about women's wrestling as best they could by putting the best female workers into positions where they get to carry the belt. Asuka and Charlotte had one of the best women's matches in the company's recent history at WrestleMania. That should be on their radar again, because there is genuine interest in seeing them wrestle again. Carmella throws an unnecessary wrench into those plans. The Divas they call up throw wrenches into the build-up and the clarity of that program. You're over-complicating what could be a real simple story between two women with something to prove against each other.

They want Carmella to be a star. I get it. But when you jam women that can't work into these positions, they lose the people and then the overall interest in the division is down. They are desperately looking for the next Trish Stratus, but what they forget is that Trish was kind of special in how and when she came along. Right now you've got other forms of special -- Charlotte is that prototypical star they look for; Asuka is a fantastic worker; Ronda Rousey is a genuine star with potential to actually draw money in the right environment; Becky Lynch is over with audiences; Shayna is coming along nicely as a heel; people do genuinely care about Sasha and Bayley still. Pull your fucking heads in and get that focus right. Maybe that next Trish Stratus will come along, but you can't just wave a magic wand over someone that isn't magic and make them that way.

And what does that goddamn booking accomplish? Does anyone really believe, even in WWE's own canon, that Carmella is better than Asuka? No. Commentary went as far as to tell people that "Asuka had this match won." Does Carmella look good beating Asuka? Of course not -- "Asuka had this match won." The heel isn't good at what they do, and the babyface just lost to them. They did this with Jinder Mahal, and they've done it so often in the past. How can anyone be surprised when neither the heels nor the babyfaces are over?

Someone needs to take that finish and throw it out. No more dumb-ass babyface gets distracted and the heel scoots through the keep spinning wheels. No more of that filler. No more of that snake eating its own tail booking. That is just thrown out until you can do it in maybe three years time and it might make people genuinely upset that the babyface got "screwed." But you don't need it. If Carmella is supposed to be the champion and the best wrestler on SmackDown, then she should be able to beat Asuka. If that sounds ludicrous to you, then it's probably time to rethink your choice of her as champion.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:33 PM   #27
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Considering they just jobbed out clean their last NXT champion to a first round loser from the Mae Young Classic makes your point precisely.
No it doesn't. Kayfabe-wise (which it seems is how you are viewing it here), every woman selected for the Mae Young Classic was a top tier athlete. Any of them could have been capable of winning the tournament, or they would not have been placed in it. It should be no embarrassment to lose to any of those women, even if you're a former NXT champion.
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Old Yesterday, 03:44 AM   #28
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No it doesn't. Kayfabe-wise (which it seems is how you are viewing it here), every woman selected for the Mae Young Classic was a top tier athlete. Any of them could have been capable of winning the tournament, or they would not have been placed in it. It should be no embarrassment to lose to any of those women, even if you're a former NXT champion.
It's not viewing it as kayfabe, it's viewing it as logical.

Sarah Logan is not better than Ember Moon, she never will be, and it is one of the few times I can say no argument will change my mind.
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Old Yesterday, 03:58 AM   #29
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Not even a kayfabe argument?
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Old Yesterday, 04:00 AM   #30
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You don't have to be "better" than someone to win a match. Especially with outside interference/etc.
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Old Yesterday, 04:03 AM   #31
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You don't have to be "better" than someone to win a match. Especially with outside interference/etc.
You might even say it's a plot device.
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Old Yesterday, 04:10 AM   #32
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Wouldn't that be novel.
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Old Yesterday, 01:21 PM   #33
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No it doesn't. Kayfabe-wise (which it seems is how you are viewing it here), every woman selected for the Mae Young Classic was a top tier athlete. Any of them could have been capable of winning the tournament, or they would not have been placed in it. It should be no embarrassment to lose to any of those women, even if you're a former NXT champion.
If all 32 of the women in that tournament were capable of winning it, then that's not a good thing. Parity in wrestling is never good.
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Old Yesterday, 01:23 PM   #34
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Why is it at all meaningful to win a tournament if anyone could have won it?
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Old Yesterday, 01:26 PM   #35
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Why would you invite them to the tournament if they weren't CAPABLE of winning it? Of course there were favorites, but you're not just throwing in a bunch of slubs.
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Old Yesterday, 01:26 PM   #36
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16 seeds USUALLY don't beat 1 seeds, but they CAN.
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Old Yesterday, 01:35 PM   #37
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Why is Curt Hawkins employed by WWE? Presumably because you need to fill out spots.

If all you're saying is "upsets could have happened", sure. It sounded like you were saying all 32 were neck and neck skill-wise and anyone could have beaten anyone because of it. Which would be bad.
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Old Yesterday, 01:37 PM   #38
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Well, for that particular tournament, it was a little different. That tournament was supposed to be showcasing the best that they could find in the world. They were scouring the globe for these contestants. If a WWE title tournament or something started right now, even kayfabe wise, Curt Hawkins should not be in it. Sarah Logan, however, deserved to be in the Mae Young Classic. If that makes sense.
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Old Yesterday, 01:43 PM   #39
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Why the fuck was Mr. Hughes in the first King of the Ring tournament?
So to speak
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Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM   #40
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Poor Curt Hawkins. 200+ match losing streak and counting and I'm almost willing to bet that he's released before he's ever given any sort of payoff.
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