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Old 10-16-2014, 03:59 PM   #1
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I have a question about Gamergate

Is there a list anywhere of the targets of Gamergate?

And, if this becomes the "official" Gamergate thread, I'm good with that. It seems kinda out of place in the general news thread.


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Old 10-16-2014, 04:03 PM   #2
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What do you mean by "targets"? The advertisers and PR firms? There's email lists I can find for ya.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:11 PM   #3
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I'm still confused how a game rating on a video game website is justification for some people to send death and rape threats to females in the industry. Absolutely deplorable behaviour.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:20 PM   #4
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Can we make this the official gamegate thread? Don't really want to hear about it.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:20 PM   #5
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@roaddoggy

That is not a GG issue. We don't condone threats of any type to anybody. There has always been trolls of this sort way before GG started.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:24 PM   #6
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Well unfortunately, they seem to be the most vocal bunch associating themselves with the movement.

What is supposed to be the message of the movement anyway? I've tried reading up on it but Twitter is terrible for that.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:28 PM   #7
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Mainly journalistic integrity, but it's growing into improving several facets of gaming media and culture. End to harassment/bullying, transparency between companies and news sites, greater diversity, more women speaking up for themselves, etc.

Every time a new smear embargo is lifted; a new goal is added. GG would not have as positive a message it has if the game journos didn't try so hard to smear the group as a whole.

But yeah, the assholes are poisoning the well. Both sides got major harassment.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:30 PM   #8
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What do you mean by "targets"? The advertisers and PR firms? There's email lists I can find for ya.
Well, Zoe Quinn was the first, right?
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:32 PM   #9
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No.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:34 PM   #10
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We don't "target" people like that. I can explain how Zoe Quinn was involved in creating GG, though. If you wish.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:34 PM   #11
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Can you please elaborate? I'd never heard of Gamergate before her.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:35 PM   #12
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What people do you, as in "we", target?
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Mainly journalistic integrity, but it's growing into improving several facets of gaming media and culture. End to harassment/bullying, transparency between companies and news sites, greater diversity, more women speaking up for themselves, etc.

Every time a new smear embargo is lifted; a new goal is added. GG would not have as positive a message it has if the game journos didn't try so hard to smear the group as a whole.

But yeah, the assholes are poisoning the well. Both sides got major harassment.
See, when I hear that, it sounds like something worth sticking up for.

But the large majority of what I have been reading is painting it as a bunch of 4channers threatening and posting private information of a few females within the industry.

Very difficult to ascertain what each side's message is when sifting through tweets.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:51 PM   #14
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Okay...

Once upon a time (bout two months ago) Zoe Quinn's ex boyfriend posted an epic expose on their relationship, detailing her multiple affairs with several men. What made this interesting was that two of the men; one a writer for Kotaku and the other her boss. Keep in mind Quinn is a developer who's game "Depression Quest" was greenlit to the chagrin of other devs on Steam. The Kotaku writer having written about Quinn 'before' their relationship and her messing around with her boss raised eyebrows.

YouTube user MundaneMatt made a video of the above jilted lover post and Zoe Quinn had it DMCA's (that is, taken down for copyright). Matt had used a single image from her game (legally) but in any case reuploaded the vid without the image. Her attempt to have the vid taken down, of course, did not seem like a copyright issue - as Depression Quest is free to obtain on Steam. At the same time this was happening there was a dead silence about the Quinn Post on gaming sites, who usually have no issue reporting on devs sex scandals.

That coupled with Quinn's thing with a Kotaku writer sprouted a demand for answers about how journalists behave with their subjects. The ensuing investigations revealed a deep well of shit that runs pretty deep. And so we have GamerGate.

Quinn herself was revealed to have smeared a game jam that wanted to get women devs to make games. She had a problem with that and had her fans(?) hack the site and nearly killed the charity. 4chan, of all places, saved the game jam allowing women to make some games. Basically she's kinda dastardly.

But Quinn isn't important to GG as she is not a journalist or anybody of particular power who can enact good or bad change. Any harassment she gets are from troll opportunist and GG wishes her safety like anybody else. This of course doesn't stop her from coming out with random jabs at GG but whatever.



This vid covers the issue at the start. Many things changed since then of course but the video does paint why she seemed important to casual onlookers til this day.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
What people do you, as in "we", target?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
The advertisers and PR firms? There's email lists I can find for ya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
See, when I hear that, it sounds like something worth sticking up for.

But the large majority of what I have been reading is painting it as a bunch of 4channers threatening and posting private information of a few females within the industry.

Very difficult to ascertain what each side's message is when sifting through tweets.
Yeah Twitter makes it very hard to follow. 4chan is no longer becoming a factor since moot (the owner) was revealed to be on the game journo side and attended an SJW conference. People who used 4chan 'migrated' to 8chan where they can speak freely about the subject.

People are being doxxed on both sides. Literally no game site (and now mainstream news) reports on the harassment GG supporters have received. The difference in what's reported and what's happening would blow your mind.

I'm glad you're doing due diligence, though. Most people see a female dev speaking about 'nerd men' harassing her and that's all they need to hear.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:58 PM   #16
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To elaborate my answer to drave; we try to send letters to advertisers and PR firms en masse to get them to dissociate with certain sites that marginalize and shame gamers, devs, and even other journalists. You may have heard that Intel pulled their ads from Gamasutra, which was one of the sites that posted a "Gamers Are Dead" article - part of a coordinated effort to get gamers off the issue. Didn't work.
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:05 PM   #17
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gaming sites, who usually have no issue reporting on devs sex scandals.
I don't think I have ever once read a gaming website publish an article about a sex scandal involving game developers
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:06 PM   #18
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was revealed to be on the game journo side and attended an SJW conference.
What is defined as an "SJW conference" and what is wrong with attending one?
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
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That coupled with Quinn's thing with a Kotaku writer sprouted a demand for answers about how journalists behave with their subjects. The ensuing investigations revealed a deep well of shit that runs pretty deep. And so we have GamerGate.
Didn't Kotuku address this specially saying that nothing was wrong?

Do you think they're lying? If so, why?
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:13 PM   #20
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That is a long video. I'll finish watching it later. Some questions, though:

What is a SJW conference, and why is it bad?

Why did Quinn have a problem with the game jam?

While I disagree with the Gamasutra article, it doesn't seem so bad that it deserves loss of advertising as a consequence. Why would you have that as a goal?
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:21 PM   #21
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I think GameJam's issues were signaling out women for the show was showing that they aren't already integrally apart of the video game industry. Making a show about a glass ceiling that might not exist basically the show was creating one by the image it was sending.
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I don't think I have ever once read a gaming website publish an article about a sex scandal involving game developers
http://kotaku.com/leisure-suit-larry...nge-1481988709

And also, Brad Wardell was a more prominent event - it's used mainly to show a clear double standard on which 'game related' news is worth posting versus others:

http://kotaku.com/5940401/pc-gaming-...ual-harassment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Wardell
What made it ridiculous was that Kotaku actually linked to her court pleadings and posted emails devoid of any context. Anyone with experience in lawsuits can tell you that lawyers always make their pleadings paint the other person as a complete monster. The ones about me were no exception, and contained endless false allegations. A lawyer can make a ham sandwich appear to be the greatest threat in human history. That's their job. Kotaku shouldn't have linked to one-sides court pleadings. That was inappropriate and biased. This is the image that the article used.
https://twitter.com/draginol/status/504983018613006336

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoXer View Post
What is defined as an "SJW conference" and what is wrong with attending one?
Social Justice Warrior ideology has grown within game journalism. Many people find that it obscures the point (or at least the expectations) of why people go to these sites. It's why headlines went from "Tomb Raider is Cool But Controls Are Eh" to "Tomb Raider is Cool But Why is She Wearing Those Shorts". It's feminist agenda specifically, and far-left in general. They claim to fight for minorities/gender equality but recent events shown that this is not the case (at least for the ones in the spot light).

Nearly all the sites who participates in the gamer spearing campaign are all managed by a single PR firm (Silver String Media) which has ties to feminist academia (DIGRA). One article blasting gamers as misogynists is happenstance, two is coincidence, 10+ in two days is a media buff. Yes, they are all under Silver String. Bear in mind gamers know how to recognize an 'embargo lift' when they see one. It was very coordinated in response to mass interest in journalistic ties.

So what's wrong with attending an SJW conference? Nothing really. The importance of who's connected to who is how 1) It shows GG wasn't just conspiracy baiting when we initially felt there was something amiss, and 2) It shows that the vilification of core gamers was in the wings of extreme liberalism and is quite strong. Threads about GamerGate were actively closed on 4chan - the website known for allowing almost anything. Then the owner was revealed to be in league with SJW's. That is an important and relevant catch.

It also explains why Anita Sarkeesian got purely positive coverage for her video series and next to no counter-arguments were given such coverage. My own blog post on GamerGate was replied with accusations of conspiracy theorist rhetoric - and right on time an article surfaced that revealed that these game journalists did in fact coordinate the suppression of the Quinn story - among other interesting things.

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Originally Posted by RoXer View Post
Stephen Totilo saying "I've looked into it, nothing was wrong" is not something with a truth value. It could be that he truly feels nothing was wrong with his writer having a relationship with his subject. His senior editorial judgment that it's not wrong in itself can't be judged as truth or lie, it's his call. His site. We do think it's wrong, particularly when another writer of his promoted games from her girlfriend and her roommate on Kotaku without disclosing her personal relationships.

Kotaku is known as a gaming news site where journalism is expected. None of these findings would be wrong if Kotaku didn't see themselves as this. They get news site ad revenue and news site access to the industry, but they act as a personal blog. That's cool, but we're actively getting at their advertisers and the game publishers to cut ties. You simply can't call gamers rapists and compare them to ISIS while getting money from ads of games.

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Old 10-16-2014, 05:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poit View Post
That is a long video. I'll finish watching it later. Some questions, though:

What is a SJW conference, and why is it bad?
Not bad per se. I explain some in my reply to RoXer above.

Quote:
Why did Quinn have a problem with the game jam?
She claims they were discriminate to trans-persons, which the runners of the game jam rejected. Some say Quinn just didn't like that they were focused on good games for good games sake rather than her ideals of games that push messages. Either case seems petty. I can link you closer looks to this particular situation if you wish in PMs. I fear I'm getting into DTTS levels of link bombing already.

Quote:
While I disagree with the Gamasutra article, it doesn't seem so bad that it deserves loss of advertising as a consequence. Why would you have that as a goal?
Intel specifically pulled their ads because of Gamasutra writer Leigh Alexander's hilariously toxic actions on Twitter.



Seriously she's hilarious. She calls for ending other writer's careers, made arguably racists comments, and desperately hates gamers. There are entire collages collecting her zaniest posts. On top of the article Gamasutra published, her actions were the nail in the coffin.

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Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
I think GameJam's issues were signaling out women for the show was showing that they aren't already integrally apart of the video game industry. Making a show about a glass ceiling that might not exist basically the show was creating one by the image it was sending.
I can vibe with that thought. The game jam was ran by quasi-feminist group "Fine Young Capitalists". 4chan and GG helped them complete the project, with the real point being gamers being misogynists just wasn't the case.
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:59 PM   #24
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Anita and Zoe also tried to persuade people not to donate to the game jam, even after it was revealed that some proceeds went to colon cancer research.
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
We do think it's wrong, particularly when another writer of his promoted games from her girlfriend and her roommate on Kotaku without disclosing her personal relationships.
I'd like to properly respond to this, but that is an incomprehensible series of pronouns. There's a woman who wrote a game, which Totilo promoted, and that woman from'ed her girlfriend and roommate on Kotaku?
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:04 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Intel specifically pulled their ads because of Gamasutra writer Leigh Alexander's hilariously toxic actions on Twitter.



Seriously she's hilarious. She calls for ending other writer's careers, made arguably racists comments, and desperately hates gamers. There are entire collages collecting her zaniest posts. On top of the article Gamasutra published, her actions were the nail in the coffin.
And so, you Gamergate people wrote to Intel to ask that they stop advertising on sites where she posted articles?
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:05 PM   #27
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By the way, I'm not ignoring the rest of your posts. It's just hard to reply to large posts with links while on my phone at work.
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:07 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poit View Post
I'd like to properly respond to this, but that is an incomprehensible series of pronouns. There's a woman who wrote a game, which Totilo promoted, and that woman from'ed her girlfriend and roommate on Kotaku?
lol Sorry, speed typing.

Kotaku writer Patricia Hernandez wrote two pieces on two different games. These games were designed by her girlfriend and roommate. It's possible Totilo had no idea of this. The articles have since added disclosures at their footnotes.

Hell, after Totilo's dismissal laced response, he came back later on with a much more reasoned and respectful response. He also recently went to twitter asking for people on the GG side who has been harassed for an article he's doing. He's shown massive improvement and while many others don't trust him, I dig it.

Personally, I feel he had no clue about his writer's conduct and was caught between downplaying the reveals or admitting he's running a circus. I kinda sympathize with him.
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:11 PM   #29
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And so, you Gamergate people wrote to Intel to ask that they stop advertising on sites where she posted articles?
Pretty much. Most of us have Intel products of some sort in our stuff and the only way we could really hit these guys and where it hurts. It wasn't until we were ignored by gaming media that we really resorted to hitting up companies.

Aside from an EA representative making a neutral-to-GG toned post, all of the big companies have been quiet. There was one anonymous Xbox developer who says the atmosphere in the company is largely GamerGate side, but since he can't speak officially I rather wait to see official responses.

Until then we gotta hit ad revenue.
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:12 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Poit View Post
By the way, I'm not ignoring the rest of your posts. It's just hard to reply to large posts with links while on my phone at work.
It's cool. Funny thing is I'm trying really hard to give you the short versions of these events.
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:14 PM   #31
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Earlier when I asked about "targets", I meant entities (people or companies) who Gamergate took action against in their mission to root out corruption. So, Zoe Quinn, Patricia Hernandez, etc. That's the list I'm interested in.
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:26 PM   #32
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Off the top of my head, these are the sites most closely related to the unethical actions we wanna root out (it hasn't been confirmed that there's corruption per se but people are looking into financial ties - there's some shit about Fez winning an indy games award that was... educational):

Kotaku (Ed: Stephen Totilo)
RockPaperShotgun
Polygon (Ed: Ben Kuchira, who is certainly on the darker side of things)
Gamasutra (where is Leigh Alexander is STILL employed)
Ars Technica.

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Old 10-16-2014, 06:27 PM   #33
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I'll try to get a decent list. There's no definitive 'enemy list' or anything.
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:07 PM   #34
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A very recent interview where GamerGate supporters and one sympathizer finally bring the other side of the argument to mainstream. This is after two wildly slanted interviews by HuffPost, CNN, and MSNBC days ago.





I've been on this since day-0. I have my reasons for why I didn't bring the fuss in here after nearly three months but since we got this thread, I will say again I'm open to whatever questions you got. I also urge you to take every word I say with heavy speculation. Challenge it. Force me to get evidence or do research to prove me wrong. I want you to take a deeper look if you want. I have no reason to slant you in any way.

Just please, don't believe the hype on game sites and mainstream media until you see they've given a voice to people on our side more often. It's no coincidence GG supporters are rarely heard outside of their own social spots and GG threads close left and right, while anti-GG get all the platform they need. But again, ask me whatever. Check stuff out. I can hook you up with some sweet vids, bro.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:02 PM   #35
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So confused. Tried to keep up but to many abbreviated words that I did not know the meaning too. Is GamerGate a bunch of gamers, the people threatening to kill other people, or the feminist against gaming? Is all this just because of the "Hatred" game coming out?

What exactly do the feminist want?
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:52 PM   #36
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What was you tweet taken out of context?
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:54 PM   #37
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I'll try to get a decent list. There's no definitive 'enemy list' or anything.
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:20 AM   #38
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After reading this thread, and this being the first ive ever heard of it, I've concluded that this is very stupid.
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:14 AM   #39
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Quote:
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What was you tweet taken out of context?
Oops, it was TechCrunch.

There was a hashtag weeks ago called 'WriteAKotakuArticle' where people had fun making headlines that parodied Kotaku's click-bait headlines. I did a few and ended with this:




Which led to a writer from TechCrunch taking offense at what he alledges was a 'rape joke'. He would go on to mention it in his article:

Quote:
“gamergaters” are the far right. They’re our Tea Party equivalent, replete with all the same inclinations to see conspiracies where there are none and trying stamp out what’s considered fringe or weird by assaulting the people rather than the product while co-opting their language. #gamergaters portray themselves as “oppressed” by the fact there are some indie games out there that they don’t like. #gamergaters feel “betrayed” by the notion that maybe a journalist and a game developer slept together. #gamergaters give credence to all “evidence” that confirms their this-can’t-go-on mentality and ignore everything else. #gamergaters consider removal of their trolling comments “censorship”.

This stance has allowed them to rationalize almost any harassment and to engage in a wide variety of victim blaming. It’s what gave the #writeakotaku hashtag the spur to produce “funny” headlines to satirize the so-called agenda of the pushy media like this: [embeds my tweet]
Hilariously, a collage went viral amongst the GG community collecting actual alarmist Kotaku headlines with rape in the title. My parody was pitch perfect. I think I tweeted it to the writer, I forget.

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Outta nowhere.
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Old 10-19-2014, 03:05 PM   #40
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Mainly journalistic integrity, but it's growing into improving several facets of gaming media and culture. End to harassment/bullying, transparency between companies and news sites, greater diversity, more women speaking up for themselves, etc.

Every time a new smear embargo is lifted; a new goal is added. GG would not have as positive a message it has if the game journos didn't try so hard to smear the group as a whole.

But yeah, the assholes are poisoning the well. Both sides got major harassment.
Where in the goals of Gamergate are tasks such as flooding research surveys with harassing responses?

What is a smear embargo?

If Gamergate supposedly has such a "positive message", why is it associated with so much harassment, threats, and so forth?

Quote:
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Stephen Totilo saying "I've looked into it, nothing was wrong" is not something with a truth value. It could be that he truly feels nothing was wrong with his writer having a relationship with his subject. His senior editorial judgment that it's not wrong in itself can't be judged as truth or lie, it's his call. His site. We do think it's wrong, particularly when another writer of his promoted games from her girlfriend and her roommate on Kotaku without disclosing her personal relationships.
Why do you not believe Totilo? What did Quinn do that was wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Off the top of my head, these are the sites most closely related to the unethical actions we wanna root out (it hasn't been confirmed that there's corruption per se but people are looking into financial ties - there's some shit about Fez winning an indy games award that was... educational):

Kotaku (Ed: Stephen Totilo)
RockPaperShotgun
Polygon (Ed: Ben Kuchira, who is certainly on the darker side of things)
Gamasutra (where is Leigh Alexander is STILL employed)
Ars Technica.
So, wait, I'm confused. There's no confirmation of corruption, but you're going after these sites anyway?
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