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Old 11-06-2017, 10:14 PM   #121
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Konnor started in developmental 12 years ago. What's he been worth? And then he gets to go home to Krissy Vaine. Unbelievable.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:15 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owenbrown View Post
Why is it when Raw is across the pond they mail it in the entire episode?
In their defense, I don't think that was their intention.

Actually, that's not a good defense at all.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:15 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I think there's more behind it than that. There's something petty and passive aggressive about it.
Not really according to the Observer or PWI I think. Just something Vince felt like doing and nobody being in any sort of power to stop him.

Last time someone actually managed to out-power Vince was with the Sasha-Charlotte Cell match. Think Vince didn't want it in the Cell, fought against them doing any big spots, and didn't want it as the main event. Resulted in a lot of backlash within management that he actually relented.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:16 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I struggle to think of people in the company who suck worse than Ryder. Titus O'Neil I'll give you.
Apollo Crews
Baron Corbin


And let's not forget, he's stuck with a tag team partner 1000000x worse than he will ever be. Plus a former tag partner, both of whom were/are the Jannetty in those pairings.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:21 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Not really according to the Observer or PWI I think. Just something Vince felt like doing and nobody being in any sort of power to stop him.

Last time someone actually managed to out-power Vince was with the Sasha-Charlotte Cell match. Think Vince didn't want it in the Cell, fought against them doing any big spots, and didn't want it as the main event. Resulted in a lot of backlash within management that he actually relented.
Dave says that he hasn't heard anything. Vince has his reasons though, surely.

Oddly enough, Vince was right about that Cell.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:23 PM   #126
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Hmm..this could be interesting
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:25 PM   #127
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Best wrestler named Pete.

Dunne or Gas
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:26 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
Apollo Crews
Baron Corbin


And let's not forget, he's stuck with a tag team partner 1000000x worse than he will ever be.
Crews sucks as a personality, but he's great bell-to-bell. Just boring as bat-shit, but so is Zack Ryder. Baron Corbin does suck, but he's better than Ryder, I think. Mojo is rough around the edges, but at least that means his shit (for bad reasons) gets laid in a lot of the time. Zack looks like he's hugging someone every time he goes for his elbow drop. One day Mojo will surpass Ryder.

Even if I did give you those names, you've gotten to 3. There are like 100 people on the roster. He's still in the bottom 10% and you're saying he deserves a main event run?
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:26 PM   #129
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:27 PM   #130
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Quote:
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Best wrestler named Pete.

Dunne or Gas
Team Bruiserweight
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:27 PM   #131
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Mean Street Posse can probably work better than half the roster now, to be honest.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:28 PM   #132
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Pete Dunne needs a tag partner last name Well

Well Dunne again
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:29 PM   #133
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Pete Dunne needs no other human company.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:33 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I cant tell if he blew out his quad or just jumped in the wrong direction for no reason...
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:33 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Oddly enough, Vince was right about that Cell.
Yeah only because WWE didn't have it as a feud ender and he still managed to get some restrictions placed on the match.

The build to the match took a sharp downturn roughly around the same time those backstage bickering started to happen. Even led to one point of Foley implying online fans can claim any match as their own main event regardless where it is on the card.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:33 PM   #136
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I think this has to be the record for the coldest RAW thread ever.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:34 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Yeah only because WWE didn't have it as a feud ender and he still managed to get some restrictions placed on the match.

The build to the match took a sharp downturn roughly around the same time those backstage bickering started to happen. Even led to one point of Foley implying online fans can claim any match as their own main event regardless where it is on the card.
The women also aren't as good as people think.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:35 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Crews sucks as a personality, but he's great bell-to-bell. Just boring as bat-shit, but so is Zack Ryder. Baron Corbin does suck, but he's better than Ryder, I think. Mojo is rough around the edges, but at least that means his shit (for bad reasons) gets laid in a lot of the time. Zack looks like he's hugging someone every time he goes for his elbow drop. One day Mojo will surpass Ryder.

Even if I did give you those names, you've gotten to 3. There are like 100 people on the roster. He's still in the bottom 10% and you're saying he deserves a main event run?
4. I edited my post to include the "great" Curt Hawkins himself.

I don't feel like he's bottom 10%. Besides, we'll give someone unproven like Mahal the WWE Championship for nearly 6 months now with no build, but it's somehow beneath Vince to even give Ryder the benefit of a chance? OK then.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:35 PM   #139
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I said this somewhere before, but I stand by it: If Triple H were given his own autonomous show to run opposite Vince, as sort of a friendly bet, Vince steamrolls Triple H.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:38 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
The women also aren't as good as people think.
No, but they're far from the worst the company has had.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:39 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I cant tell if he blew out his quad or just jumped in the wrong direction for no reason...
Simply slipped off the top rope with the jumping off leg. Him bracing for the fall probably is the only reason he didn't blow a quad or worse.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:39 PM   #142
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Quote:
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I said this somewhere before, but I stand by it: If Triple H were given his own autonomous show to run opposite Vince, as sort of a friendly bet, Vince steamrolls Triple H.
#NXT
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:39 PM   #143
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Quote:
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4. I edited my post to include the "great" Curt Hawkins himself.

I don't feel like he's bottom 10%. Besides, we'll give someone unproven like Mahal the WWE Championship for nearly 6 months now with no build, but it's somehow beneath Vince to even give Ryder the benefit of a chance? OK then.
Who said that Curt Hawkins was "great?" I'd find a cup of cat piss more interesting. Alright, can you name 10 people that Zack Ryder is better than in the ring? Instead of just saying it, can you back it up?

I'm not pro-Jinder Mahal either, so that point is a total non-sequitur. I think Mahal is proven -- proven to be terrible. I absolutely consider giving him the WWE Title a mistake. So how does that make giving it to Ryder good?
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:40 PM   #144
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No, but they're far from the worst the company has had.
No, but they're not that good.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:40 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Simply slipped off the top rope with the jumping off leg. Him bracing for the fall probably is the only reason he didn't blow a quad or worse.
I see it now. Hard to tell sometimes with a gif.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:40 PM   #146
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#NXT
Doesn't NXT run at a deficit? It's in Vince's good graces that Triple H gets to run that vanity project.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:42 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Doesn't NXT run at a deficit? It's in Vince's good graces that Triple H gets to run that vanity project.
Do you think NXT would run at a deficit if it was on TV every week with advertisers?
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:43 PM   #148
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Sheamus and Cesaro will drive ford f150s to the ring at WM.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:45 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I'm not pro-Jinder Mahal either, so that point is a total non-sequitur. I think Mahal is proven -- proven to be terrible. I absolutely consider giving him the WWE Title a mistake. So how does that make giving it to Ryder good?
It doesn't automatically make him good, but with a proper build, I could see him being very good indeed.

My point is you can't know how good he'd be as champ without actually having the guts to make that dice roll in the first place. Sure, it could come up snake eyes, or you could roll 7.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:46 PM   #150
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So they should have the guts to make everyone champ to see if they'd be good at it?
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:46 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Do you think NXT would run at a deficit if it was on TV every week with advertisers?
It depends if they get enough people to watch it to get the advertisers in.

I'm being cynical. I've thought for the longest time that they should try to get NXT on TV so that they can get something out of it. They're already filming it, you might as well try to shop it to either USA, ESPN or Syfy. I also think they should do an NBC show heading into WrestleMania every year though, so what do I know? I do know that NXT performs better than 205 Live which means it probably has a few hundred thousand people watching it, which means it is more over than the Broken Hardy stuff.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:49 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Doesn't NXT run at a deficit? It's in Vince's good graces that Triple H gets to run that vanity project.
No idea, but even if it does, I think it's a clear example of what Triple H could (emphasis there on "could") do for the main roster were Vince not so tightly clinging to control over them. IJS.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:51 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
It doesn't automatically make him good, but with a proper build, I could see him being very good indeed.

My point is you can't know how good he'd be as champ without actually having the guts to make that dice roll in the first place. Sure, it could come up snake eyes, or you could roll 7.
No, it doesn't automatically make him good. I can't, because he's awful. That's where we fundamentally disagree on this issue. I think you could have Zack Ryder go out there for 100 weeks straight and do nothing but win and no one would really care because he's not very good.

They have a large sample of the guy's work at this point. He's been under their umbrella for 11 years at this point, and he has only had a handful of good matches at best. He did get super over at one point, but it amounted to nothing tangible because when they tried, in their own WWE way, it failed. The idea that they should put the WWE Title on the guy because they "don't know" yet is a bit silly. They know that the guy isn't up to snuff.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:54 PM   #154
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Said it before...... but I liked the women's cell match and thought it was good as the main event........

But that's just my two cents.....
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:57 PM   #155
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I see it now. Hard to tell sometimes with a gif.
At the time it looked a lot worse since he had only recently came back from a serious knee injury.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:57 PM   #156
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Lol hit by an F150
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:57 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
No, it doesn't automatically make him good. I can't, because he's awful. That's where we fundamentally disagree on this issue. I think you could have Zack Ryder go out there for 100 weeks straight and do nothing but win and no one would really care because he's not very good.

They have a large sample of the guy's work at this point. He's been under their umbrella for 11 years at this point, and he has only had a handful of good matches at best. He did get super over at one point, but it amounted to nothing tangible because when they tried, in their own WWE way, it failed. The idea that they should put the WWE Title on the guy because they "don't know" yet is a bit silly. They know that the guy isn't up to snuff.
Neither is Mahal, but they didn't let previous knowledge that he was beyond sub-par stop them from slapping it on him just the same.

Considering that the title might as well be made of cardboard right now in terms of worth, maybe it would be better that Zack doesn't win it or even sniff the main event scene for a good long while.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:58 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
No idea, but even if it does, I think it's a clear example of what Triple H could (emphasis there on "could") do for the main roster were Vince not so tightly clinging to control over them. IJS.
I think Triple H has a great grasp on the fundamentals of professional wrestling. He's a fan and I think he "gets" that part of it. He also gets to do that with NXT. He doesn't have two or three hours to fill, he doesn't have big arenas to fill every week, and he doesn't have ratings to worry about.

I do wonder if Triple H takes over RAW, for example, if anything changes. I wonder if it even gets worse. People just assume it would change to logical booking. Triple H has been involved in some incredibly ego-driven and nonsensical shit that has legitimately hurt the business over his career. As he moves away from the ring, it's surely getting better, but every year we still have to get that Triple H match at WrestleMania that means nothing.

Triple H also overestimates himself and his "kids" when it comes to what a star is. Who has NXT truly produced? You can claim that Vince and Kevin Dunn fuck it up with guys and gals, and that sometimes they don't even try. I will hear that argument. But I will also raise the point that Triple H gets to keep talent off shows in NXT, he gets to pick their spots, gets to avoid overexposing them. He also gets to hide their weaknesses, which becomes harder and harder with the weekly grind and exposure of RAW and SmackDown.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:59 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
Neither is Mahal, but they didn't let previous knowledge that he was beyond sub-par stop them from slapping it on him just the same.

Considering that the title might as well be made of cardboard right now in terms of worth, maybe it would be better that Zack doesn't win it or even sniff the main event scene for a good long while.
Yeah, putting the WWE Title on Mahal is/was a mistake. So would putting it on Zack Ryder. And?
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:03 PM   #160
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Said it before...... but I liked the women's cell match and thought it was good as the main event........

But that's just my two cents.....
I had hit a very low point in my fandom then. I had bitten the bullet and watched Clash of Champions the month before and realized just how uninteresting I found everything. Everybody did the same shit and it was just so...boring. Wrestling was boring.

I'm sure Charlotte/Sasha is far from the worst main event in company history. I like both girls actually -- Charlotte is the closest they have to a female star and Sasha and is over. But Triple H got to coddle Sasha and protect her in NXT. When things go awry in a match she's lost, because she's had a very narrow field of training.
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