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Old 04-29-2018, 02:51 PM   #1
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Is Brock Lesnar ruining the Main Event scene?
I have been following Raw and Smackdown occasionally and watching Whatcultures recaps of the shows to see if anything interesting happened, however what has bothered me the most is just how lackluster the main event scene is.

Hear me out, Lesnar is over a year now without a title, his matches seem to be stale as hell and seemingly pseudo UFC with some wrestling mixed in here and there, they just don't feel like wrestling matches with good flow.

Then having the Miz hold the IC belt for so long, made it even worse. None of the top stars seemed to have that stepping stone to get to the top of the card, no measure of greatness or success prior to challenging for a title no is going to beat Lesnar for.

Yes. the attitude era was different, but you had guys the HHH, Rock, and the like gunning for the IC title, Taker held the Hardcore title, you had top tier guys going for the Tag Titles as well, all of this intermixed where you would see people who had a realistic chance of the World Title have a few reigns with lesser titles prior.

For me, it seems so...tiered...like each title has its own division, where you are either in it, or you arent and can't be in both at the same time.

Stroman for example, after the tag title with a 10 year old was just stupid as hell, and devalued it. Now, would you see Stroman and perhaps Roman tag for the straps nowadays? Nope, its World title or bust, would you see them mixed in with Rollins, Balor, or Rusev, or Roode? Nope.

I just feel there is no interdivisiomal feuds, where storylines intertwine and keep you interested in multiple things happening.

Christ, I am rambling.

TLDR, suspension of disbelief is hard, when you can't believe the booking calls.

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Old 04-29-2018, 03:48 PM   #2
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Brock is fine when he's working with someone who can work. He and Reigns do not click well in the ring in my opinion or other last couple of matches have just been poorly out together.
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:01 PM   #3
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Brocks great if you want to see 2 suplex variations and an f5 over and over and over and over and over and over. Its amusing that the crowd initially bought into this "suplex city" shit, but now they're finally cluing into the fact he's only doing it as he can't be fucking bothered to do much else.
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:24 PM   #4
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I mostly agree with Gerard Butler. I would add to it that every week is another Heyman solo promo with Brock just standing there week after week. Just like "suplex city" vs Cena, the promos were really cool at first. Then it was every week, and it all got stale. I was kinda hoping Brock left for UFC (he could always come back) just because it's the same rinse and repeat situation with Brock now. Both build and match.
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Old 04-29-2018, 06:36 PM   #5
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Brock is box office. He brings the reality factor and is a genuine badass. He is also the biggest star they have. He has been forced to be a party in this Reigns farce and it has tainted everyone and every event associated with it.

Give him a proper program with AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan and then judge him. Honestly, speaking as a casual these days, he was what I always tuned in for, up until Reigns, of course
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Old 04-29-2018, 06:40 PM   #6
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Plus the more Brock is used, the more he will suffer like everyone else does...from the repetitive nature of WWE storylines. Most things at Mania, the biggest event of the year, didn't have much build and were just thrown together.

That's why stories like Owens and Jericho (which they obviously did themselves tbh) stick out for us. Those are the stories that make us love wrestiling and we just aren't given it anymore.

Everyone just fights and exchanges wins and Brock suffers from that repetition as much as anyone else
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Old 04-29-2018, 06:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
Brock is box office. He brings the reality factor and is a genuine badass. He is also the biggest star they have. He has been forced to be a party in this Reigns farce and it has tainted everyone and every event associated with it.

Give him a proper program with AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan and then judge him. Honestly, speaking as a casual these days, he was what I always tuned in for, up until Reigns, of course
You tune in for Reigns or was that sarcasm?
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Old 04-29-2018, 06:43 PM   #8
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You tune in for Reigns or was that sarcasm?
Sorry, probably didn't put that very well. I only watched the events Brock was on for a long time. It was when he got involved with Reigns that I lost interest in him too
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Old 04-29-2018, 06:47 PM   #9
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Ah, got it.
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Old 04-29-2018, 06:50 PM   #10
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Brock vs AJ Styles was actually pretty good. Goes to show that Brock can still have good matches. Problem is they put him with other 1 dimensional guys like Reigns and its painful. Samoa Joe and Stowman vs Lesnar was entertaining to me as well because you had bully vs bully. The main event scene would be better if they just had more variety. Reigns is not top dog and has proven it over and over with his Lesnar feud.
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Old 04-29-2018, 06:55 PM   #11
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Going to say no and the real problem is WWE's long term booking being generally terrible. They have no clue how to transition off from Lesnar as champ and watered him down a lot once the Suplex City stuff took off.

Lesnar's rare appearances are probably the only reason he still has that big star aura feel to him since he's less exposed to WWE's attrition style booking.
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Old 04-29-2018, 07:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
Brock is box office. He brings the reality factor and is a genuine badass. He is also the biggest star they have. He has been forced to be a party in this Reigns farce and it has tainted everyone and every event associated with it.

Give him a proper program with AJ Styles or Daniel Bryan and then judge him. Honestly, speaking as a casual these days, he was what I always tuned in for, up until Reigns, of course
Is there much of a point to having a reality factor in a worked "sport"? Great, he won stuff in ufc which was real, how does that help wwe which everyone and their dog knows is fake? As for him being box office, considering his last few matches consisting of the same handful of moves between 2 competitors over and over, i'd imagine his box office attraction as far as wwe is concerned is starting to wane.

His matches with reigns are basically carbon copies of his last goldberg match, both of them trying for their "big moves" right out of the gate and for the most part just repeating them numerous times with nothing inbetween.
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Old 04-29-2018, 07:23 PM   #13
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It helps you "buy in" imo, it gives it that anything could happen factor. I watch wrestling cause I want to suspend disbelief, Brock makes that really easy because he is a beast and is unpredictable.

Goldberg and Brock was my favourite match of last year tbh. Two massive stars, it was like a car wreck and didn't take my eyes of it.

My argument is similar to yours, but I think the lack of interest is more to do with Reigns than anything else. I really enjoyed HHH, Taker, Styles, Samoa Joe, basically all his other interactions bar Reigns and Ambrose. Imo, Reigns dragged him down
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Old 04-29-2018, 11:02 PM   #14
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I've said before, but Brock is legit when he's given something good. His feud with Punk was great as was the match. His post Mania feud with Taker and the 2 matches were great. You give Brock a good story and he's stellar.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:39 AM   #15
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Lesnar's rare appearances are probably the only reason he still has that big star aura feel to him since he's less exposed to WWE's attrition style booking.
Bingo.

One of the major problems that I've maintained for years with WWE's booking and storytelling is that no matter how many hours of programming they need to fill each week, they eventually trot out THE SAME PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. Once someone gets over (and the company can be assed to follow through with it), the act gets overexposed. The most egregious example was the so-named "HHH Reign of Terror" where the guy would dominate the opening 20 minutes, at least three backstage segments, and then that night's main event. Repeatedly. You have people who can't even get on the show but maybe once a month to job, but this guy could eat about 45 minutes of TV time in a "two hour" show (millions of commercial breaks really make it about 1 1/2)?

We don't need to see the "hottest" shit all the time. It is why I love how NXT is handled; none of the champions need to be on every show. People don't shit themselves out of anger if Lars Sullivan isn't appearing weekly. The only thing there that is in any danger of being overdone is Gargano/Ciampa, but even that is conservative compared to how that feud would be playing out if it took place on the main roster. They would be in a match or brawl every flippin' week before the PPV, so why would be be bothered to watch the PPV?

The only issue I personally have with Brock being such an idle champ, though, is the psychology dance they do with the whole "30 day" rule... but the trade-off is that he ain't stale because he ain't there. If he were a full time guy, he would have been booked into the ground within 8 months of is FIRST return, and everyone would have been ready for him to fuck off back to UFC and stay there. In essence, him being an aloof dick is forcing WWE optimize how he's used. He is "accidentially" getting the Hogan treatment, and that's a good thing.

I feel they should actually book their other world champion similarly. AJ shouldn't have to headline on a weekly basis. Yes, he *can*, but he shouldn't have to.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:14 PM   #16
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not at all, but they can't run any more Brock/Roman matches anymore. or Brock vs Braun. They need to freshen things up and go with someone new. they have a lot of opportunities to make a guy with Brock. someone who's in the middle of the card.

all they would have to do is have that guy fire the first shot and get one over on Lesnar and you're off. Imagine Brock in the ring cutting his normal boring promo and someone like Elias comes out of the crowd and guitar shots him. Boom, you're off. the crowd would eat that shit alive. there's a ton of guys you can do this with.
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:08 PM   #17
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not at all, but they can't run any more Brock/Roman matches anymore. or Brock vs Braun. They need to freshen things up and go with someone new. they have a lot of opportunities to make a guy with Brock. someone who's in the middle of the card.

all they would have to do is have that guy fire the first shot and get one over on Lesnar and you're off. Imagine Brock in the ring cutting his normal boring promo and someone like Elias comes out of the crowd and guitar shots him. Boom, you're off. the crowd would eat that shit alive. there's a ton of guys you can do this with.
Yes, exactly this. Shock us, surprise us. Honestly feel the majority of fans get into stuff very easily if it is fresh or intriguing. If Elias actually did this, I would mark out. It's instant star stuff.

But instead we will get Heyman talking for ages and then a match made a month in advance, no interaction, paint by numbers match because they have no reason to be fighting, and F5
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:10 PM   #18
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No. If anything is ruining WWE's main event scene it's the fact that they can't build anyone up to be on his level.
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:56 PM   #19
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Sadly, even though I want him to do better, Roman makes pretty much anyone boring (unless he's grouped with Ambrose and Rollins). Brock included.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:03 PM   #20
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Brock Lesnar never appears on Main Event, so it's tough to say he's ruining that scene.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:04 PM   #21
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Oh man, how awesome would it be if he did? JUst fucking murdered Hawkins, week after week.
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Old 05-01-2018, 07:13 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
Is there much of a point to having a reality factor in a worked "sport"? Great, he won stuff in ufc which was real, how does that help wwe which everyone and their dog knows is fake? As for him being box office, considering his last few matches consisting of the same handful of moves between 2 competitors over and over, i'd imagine his box office attraction as far as wwe is concerned is starting to wane.

His matches with reigns are basically carbon copies of his last goldberg match, both of them trying for their "big moves" right out of the gate and for the most part just repeating them numerous times with nothing inbetween.
It absolutely does matter. If you're not going to buy into the action, even if you know it's "drama," then how can they expect any emotional investment? What is the point of self-aware wrestling?

Brock Lesnar is amazing. He doesn't sell for everyone because he understands that not everybody is worth selling for. He is one of the last people who understands that some people stand tall because they are standing on others. When he's with someone worth it, he puts in amazing effort and has a classic match. The WWE just don't have many of those, because those sorts of people are going into different lines of work. It's the wrestling scene, and WWE has helped cultivate it.
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Old 05-01-2018, 07:35 AM   #23
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He could have put on a 5 star clinic with Roman and at this point it'd get booed out of the building. Fans just don't fucking want anything to do with Reigns.
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Old 05-01-2018, 07:36 AM   #24
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It snuck up on us, but it's so surreal that when you get to WrestleMania, the crowd the WWE draws to its biggest show of the year; it's most loyal fans -- do not give a fuck about the alleged top babyface. Wow.
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