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Old 04-29-2018, 08:31 PM   #41
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Source/link?
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Old 04-29-2018, 08:39 PM   #42
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Actuall Swiss, it was a posthumous e-mail from Lord Alfred Hayes.
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:44 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by SixxT9 View Post
On a serious note, Braun gets the best reactions but he can't be the "face of the company". Not that look.
If Braun was as congenial as Cena I could see the gentle giant thing getting over with people. He's not "insane" Andre sized though I guess.
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:47 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
If Braun was as congenial as Cena I could see the gentle giant thing getting over with people. He's not "insane" Andre sized though I guess.
Still not the face of WWE. Face of the WWE needs to be someone women cream over, not someone men cream over.
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:00 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Swiss View Post
That's not very progressive.
Neither was the Greatest Royal Rumble, but for different reasons.
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:16 PM   #46
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Fandango just got moved back to Raw, can't be a coincidence.
If... fucking... only...
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:25 PM   #47
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Still not the face of WWE. Face of the WWE needs to be someone women cream over, not someone men cream over.
Women love guys who are good with kids. Kids like Nicholas.
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:44 PM   #48
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So time to give Heath Slater a mega push?

He's got kids like his shirt says and feeds them only the finest quality of cheese and crackers money can buy.
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:46 PM   #49
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Never know till you try...
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:38 AM   #50
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I think where they really screwed Roman over was in 2014 when he was a singles wrestled for a few months, got hurt, then WAS forced him down our throats and gave him Superstar of the year based on nothing. That is when the backlash to him really started.

Then he came back from the injury and was clearly the chosen guy, that and Vince gave him lame cartoony promos. WWE doesn't allow people to get themselves over then go with that guy, in fact they almost go out of their way to squash guys that get over that they didn't decide.

Look at Rusev, clearly he should have won the U.S. Title at Mania with the crowd behind him, instead they go with Jinder just so he can drop it to Jeff Hardy 8 days later. Jeff Hardy couldn't just get drafted to Smackdown and challenge Rusev for the belt?

WWE should have turned Roman Heel after he beat Taker last year. Heel Roman would get over like gangbusters. He needs to come out Monday and blame all the fans for him getting screwed out of the cage match. Mix a little Bret Hart blaming Americans with Chris Jericho heeling on Shawn Michaels. Do some dastardly things like coming out during a face vs face Cruiserweight match and destroying both of them just because he can.

Maybe go out and Smack Corey Graves around.

Get retroactively vengeful on Rollins, which would be bad since they forgave Rollins already. Vicious Heel Roman would get over huge, and an eventual baby face turn a year down the road would get him even more over.

Roman as he is now is done. It hasn't worked, and it can't work after the losses, and it won't work unless Vince gives up this stubbornness he has that makes him think Roman is about to turn the corner and be THE Star.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:47 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Remember when Roman was the 2nd to last guy in the Rumble against Batista? He was an underdog and the crowd was going wild for him. If they only could have called an audible then, I think we would have a totally different situation for Reigns now.
Interesting "what if", especially considering the crowd would have gone apeshit for just about anyone other than telegraphing Batista.

Still think it's funny that it looked like they were preparing themselves to piggyback off of the impending success of Guardians of the Galaxy (nobody knew it was going to be the runaway smash that it would become, but this was still past the point of everyone being aware that MCU was a licence to print money), and they instead didn't think it would do that well. It's like they had themselves set up for that cross-promotinal, mainstream media appeal they look to manufacture, but it ironically wasn't in their plan at all.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:56 AM   #52
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I want to say they f***** up when they had him going over the guy who was clearly beloved by fans and insanely popular and they kept doing it on purpose you really can't do that expect people to just be okay with it. Then they settled him with a fight from underneath Underdog gimmick and when that didn't work he just became straight up Superman. I think he was just an experiment that was doomed to fail because they didn't know how to put him across which is weird considering his attitude in the shield was what got him over in the first place and it was just being a silent badass.
Last edited by KIRA; 04-30-2018 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:59 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
Interesting "what if", especially considering the crowd would have gone apeshit for just about anyone other than telegraphing Batista.

Still think it's funny that it looked like they were preparing themselves to piggyback off of the impending success of Guardians of the Galaxy (nobody knew it was going to be the runaway smash that it would become, but this was still past the point of everyone being aware that MCU was a licence to print money), and they instead didn't think it would do that well. It's like they had themselves set up for that cross-promotinal, mainstream media appeal they look to manufacture, but it ironically wasn't in their plan at all.
Actually, according to Batista, WWE thought the movie wasn't gonna be anything, and they didn't even mention it, let alone try to piggyback on it.
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:03 AM   #54
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... which is what I just mentioned.

It's as ironic as Cesaro and later Strowman hitting all of Vince's bullet points on what a wrestler should be, and when it actually lands in his lap, he does fuck-all with it because reasons.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:09 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Remember when Roman was the 2nd to last guy in the Rumble against Batista? He was an underdog and the crowd was going wild for him. If they only could have called an audible then, I think we would have a totally different situation for Reigns now.
No way. People were just pissed off because they weren't getting Bryan. Reigns going against Orton would have been riddled with "Daniel Bryan" chants and he'd have still flopped.

The WWE constantly piss all over kayfabe. They constantly remind you that this shit doesn't matter and that it's all performance art. How can they be surprised when someone is picked out, seemingly arbitrarily, and groomed to be universally loved? It's an absolutely insane idea. Vince simultaneously wants to disown pro-wrestling, all the while he wants pro-wrestling techniques to get Roman over as a top guy.

There's an aesthetic problem with Reigns. They have him dressed up like a kid playing army man. Rollins and Ambrose evolved their look when they moved on. The WWE has clung to that Shield aesthetic in a desperate and hollow attempt to try and keep him over. It didn't work. It won't ever work. Few things are certain in this world, but there is no way crowds are just going to turn around on the guy without any change from him. His entrance is nauseating. He has about three different logos and motifs flashing on the screen, all of them clashing and in juxtaposition to each other. It's like seven different billboards spliced together and it's an affront that just makes you sick of the guy before he even does anything.

His booking has been spotty. You can understand why they've done certain things with him. They've done everything they would do with classical babyfaces that would work when people believed in the guy. The 2015 Royal Rumble would have been brilliant if people liked Reigns and put stock in Kane and Big Show in 2015. But they don't on both counts. And lately they've been trying to get him "over" by pointing out that he got his ass kicked and is looking sad.

His scripts suck and the guy has got no babyface instincts. Apparently it was his idea to get carted off like a little bitch in the 2016 Rumble. You can see him trying to act when he's out there, like he's trying to remember what a cool babyface looks like all the time. Ironically, if you turned him heel he'd instantly be awesome.

I don't believe they're cutting bait on Reigns. I imagine that they've just worked out that since belts don't matter anymore, they can still put him on posters and call him the biggest star and no one will ask any questions like good obedient viewers. I was saying a while ago that I would not be surprised if Brock retained the belt -- it's only Vince's stubbornness that makes you think he would have gone with him.

They'll go with Braun short-term. And that will suck, because it's Braun, and he's worse than Reigns, and when someone else gets that push it will be as nauseating as it was with Reigns, and people will start whinging. I wish they'd just end this fucking stupid roster split and put everybody back on the one roster and have Styles beat Brock. If they need separate rosters, I'd go with Joe beating Reigns at Backlash and then beating Brock at MITB. Then I'd nominate Lashley. I'd take Roode. I'd love for Bryan to come over. But they'll go with Braun. Be careful what you wished for...

I was just thinking yesterday that I'd be quite happy for a Roman Reigns that has failed to win the belt, couldn't beat Joe and couldn't win MITB to turn heel on Rollins and go after the IC Title. I think that feud could be really good with both guys in their natural alignment. But I think they'll probably have Reigns stay babyface and just keep buzzing him around the belt whenever they want.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:12 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
... which is what I just mentioned.

It's as ironic as Cesaro and later Strowman hitting all of Vince's bullet points on what a wrestler should be, and when it actually lands in his lap, he does fuck-all with it because reasons.
Neither guy hits all of Vince's bullets. Cesaro lacks that extroverted charisma that Vince likes in his top stars. Also, he talks with an accent instead of like a gruff American. Braun's got size, the look and probably the attitude, but he also lacks skill in the ring.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:27 AM   #57
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Yeah, like Vince really gives a shit about skill in the ring. We wouldn't have had the influx of smaller guys doing twice as much to try to get half the exposure if WWE never got that deserved reputation of "land of the giants". And Cesaro was, at one point, T-shirts waiting to happen. The heavy talking could have been handled (where it looked like it was going to go at first) by Heyman. Cesaro Sections were everywhere and folks popped huge for a goddamn giant swing.

Meanwhile, we were supposed to go crazy for Rusev at a time when Rusev was in such a generic 80's foreign heel package, he may as well just have worn Ivan Drago's trunks with Nikolai Volkoff's jacket, or even currently buy into the idea that Baron Corbin isn't almost total ass with very few sparks of anything besides being tall enough.
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:09 AM   #58
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As the face of the company? Yeah, he does a little bit. He doesn't go for technical wizards all the time, but Hogan, Bret, Shawn, Austin, Rock, Triple H, Brock, Cena and Reigns are all much better wrestlers than Braun is. He'd be the biggest and the least skilled of them all. Braun would actually be a departure from what Vince usually looks for.

We've got an influx of smaller guys doing twice as much because that's how the business has devalued itself. You need to do twice as much to get "over" with a dwindling audience. Triple H hires them because he wants to get over as the head of developmental and Vince puts them on TV because that's who is coming through the pipeline in NXT. They're factored into functional positions. But the plan has been Reigns since at least 2012.

I love Cesaro as much as the next guy. Him getting fucked up in 2014 still has me sore. But he got the chance to move t-shirts and it didn't really happen. The Cesaro Section thing was something I wanted to catch on, but it just didn't. Heyman had his hands tied and was told to talk about Brock, but there's a reason for that -- they didn't want him to be the guy. Cena and Reigns don't have managers talking for them. Brock is the exception because he's Brock. If Cesaro moved numbers like Brock, then he could be in that position, but he doesn't, so Vince won't put him in that position.

Baron Corbin is a fucking mess. I have no clue what Vince sees in the guy there, but it's probably enhanced by backstage stuff and him just giving Vince that mental stiffy. Who knows what Vince and doesn't see sometimes. I think he's dead wrong about Corbin if he thinks he's got something there. But Corbin is still more competent than Strowman in the ring. He's boring as fuck, but he's not as sloppy.
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Old 04-30-2018, 09:27 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
... which is what I just mentioned.

It's as ironic as Cesaro and later Strowman hitting all of Vince's bullet points on what a wrestler should be, and when it actually lands in his lap, he does fuck-all with it because reasons.
Whoops, you did. That's what I get for not reading your entire post
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:17 PM   #60
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man if his whole "i work 24/7 for this company and Brock's a part timer" thing didn't get over, there's no hope.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:20 PM   #61
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Roman will win the IC title and be the focus of RAW in Brock's absence though

probably
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:08 PM   #62
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Roman just needs more vignettes instead of the formula of him coming out, staring around and telling everyone it's his yard. Make people care about him before throwing him into heavy damage matches
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:10 PM   #63
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WHAT IS JOE RAINS DOING IN THE IMPACT ZONE?!?!?!
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:38 PM   #64
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TOnya Harding vs Roe Reigns at SummerSLam
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:21 PM   #65
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If he goes back to his home planet via floating off screen in the overrun tonight, then we'll know.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:22 PM   #66
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If he goes back to his home planet via floating off screen in the overrun tonight, then we'll know.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:23 PM   #67
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It's crazy how the Big "DOG" is Poochie.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:59 AM   #68
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Braun and Seth Rollins are really the top faces on RAW r/n

Let Finn turn heel and he can be a top heel alongside KO/Sami (but hopefully win more than they do).
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:15 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
Braun and Seth Rollins are really the top faces on RAW r/n

Let Finn turn heel and he can be a top heel alongside KO/Sami (but hopefully win more than they do).
Are KO/Sami "top" in any aspect?

Last I checked they were pretty much a laughing stock.
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:40 PM   #70
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Quote:
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Are KO/Sami "top" in any aspect?

Last I checked they were pretty much a laughing stock.
I dunno man. People pay to see them get their asses kicked so what more could a promoter ask for?
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:46 PM   #71
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I dunno man. People pay to see them get their asses kicked so what more could a promoter ask for?
Hm, well, good point.

But still, they aren't "top". I don't know the rosters, so I'm not sure if there's someone "more evil" than them on their brand, though.
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:58 PM   #72
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Quote:
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If he goes back to his home planet via floating off screen in the overrun tonight, then we'll know.
Whenever Roman Reigns is not on screen, all of the other characters should be asking "where's Roman?"
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:03 PM   #73
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Quote:
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Whenever Roman Reigns is not on screen, all of the other characters should be asking "where's Roman?"
The worst part is this is exactly what happens.
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:05 PM   #74
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Hm, well, good point.

But still, they aren't "top". I don't know the rosters, so I'm not sure if there's someone "more evil" than them on their brand, though.
The other big heels on RAW are now Baron Corbin and Jinder Mahal, so prospects are pretty bleak on the RAW heel side currently.
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:52 PM   #75
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The other big heels on RAW are now Baron Corbin and Jinder Mahal, so prospects are pretty bleak on the RAW heel side currently.
Wow, yeah, that sounds pretty damn weak.
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:43 PM   #76
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Finn Balor would be much more lively as a heel, but again, I don't buy him beating up a 6'3, 250lbs dude. Reigns should be the heel. If people cheer that...good.
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Old 05-02-2018, 10:29 AM   #77
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Quote:
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But... but he's black!

On a serious note, Braun gets the best reactions but he can't be the "face of the company". Not that look.
I know you're just kidding around, but he was actually in the WWE Championship picture towards what ended up being the end of his first WWE run. 5-Pack "Championship Challenge" at Vengeance: Night of Champions and 1-on-1 with Cena at The Great American Bash (2007).

I sincerely believe he nor anyone else won the belt from Cena because Vince was very much sold on letting Cena run with it for as long as he wanted. Of course, Cena fell victim to injury en route to No Mercy, but that's neither here nor there. Fact is, sometime between GAB '07 and the 7/30 episode of RAW, Lashley was injured which they covered for with a kayfabe injury in a match with Mr. Kennedy.

He was set to return in 2008 until apparently Michael P.S. Hayes was a huge racist asshole to him backstage and he essentially quit and was quietly let go in February 2008.

But yeah...he's really just kinda... THERE so far. Hasn't wowed me at all. The answer to the question as it pertains to Lashley of what have you done for me lately, is nothing. Braun on the other hand is still wildly popular. Give him the belt from SummerSlam through the start of 2019 as a transitional guy and have him drop it to somebody worthwhile who would actually be believable in toppling him and who will actually fit the mold of the new face of the company. Shit, have him and AJ work a program and at some point just unify the titles with AJ going over. He's proven he's money on SDL, why not make him undisputed company champ and let him be a free agent who can compete on either or both shows each week?
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Old 05-02-2018, 10:49 AM   #78
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I'll just leave this here
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Old 05-02-2018, 11:10 AM   #79
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Reigns should go back to basics. Ditch the tactical gear, give him a new look and gimmick.

Maybe Back to Roman Leake
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Old 05-02-2018, 11:49 AM   #80
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The idea of him being a spoiled, entitled hand chosen company man who uses his family name to get ahead, who also happensto be a wrecking machine while he's at it, would be a wonderful turn off character for him.
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