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Old 11-06-2017, 12:06 AM   #41
Tom Guycott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
I am not saying he is wrong to make money of his name as a performer, while he can. Not at all.

WWE, however, have always frowned upon guys doing their own thing, especially in wrestling. This is putting eyes on a potential rival product, American eyes. That seems to be something that would really rattle Vince.

Given the relationship they have had recently, I can definitely see them being disappointed about it and this time they may have a valid reason to be upset with him given their relationship and freedom he was given.

I am not complaining at all though and would love a real competitor to emerge. So the more eyes on other products, for me, the better
An even bigger point of contention is the whole Elite/WWE backstage nonsense with cease and desists and firing a guy that most people wouldn't have even noticed for taking a pic with them.

Jericho is a far bigger star than can truly be negatively affected by Vince & co. being petty at this juncture, and this is something wrestling *needs*.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Hope Omegas back can handle it
Are you insinuating he's going to be carrying Chris, or are you speculating Jericho will bust out the Liontamer from his list of 1004 holds for this one?
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:28 AM   #42
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Both will occur
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:40 AM   #43
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I don't think so.

As much as both poo-pooing and overslurping Jericho happens, he's well above par in the ring. It's just a matter of not having too many people to go up against (much like chess, iron sharpens iron) and the watered down laziness of the WWE style makes him seem a lot worse than he actually is. I made an example of Cena before in this area where he is actually a better wrestler than people realize (and has had a few "surprising" matches), but he doesn't have to do it much because the lazy gimmick and the autopilot moveset has worked for well over a decade, so why change up with the cash still rolling in?

I don't doubt at all this will be a great match, but I do seriously doubt Kenny will have to do some "heavy lifting" here. Not like Chris is some over the hill veteran who can barely move anymore.
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:54 AM   #44
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I, for one, still really enjoyed Jericho's matches against Ambrose, Styles, and Owens......

Him doing this might actually get me to pay attention to NJPW, for at least one match and one night anyways.
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:59 AM   #45
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WWE had "A Beast in the East"... now NJPW will have "A Sexy Beast in the East!"
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:27 AM   #46
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:49 AM   #47
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Worth noting for people thinking about jumping on NJPW World for this is thst their billing is weird. You pay when you sign up, but then on the 1st of the month every month. So if you wanted it before WK12 to check some things out, may s well do it now rather than the end of the month. If you just want it for WK12, do it on the 1st of Jan.

Also, Wrestle Kingdom is long. Wrestlemania long. But it works in two halves where the undercard matches are on for a few hours, usually including a royal rumble with no stakes at the start, made watchable by SCOTT FUCKING NORTON last year. Then they have a literal piss break in the form of intermission before getting into the bigger matches.

If I get some time over next weekend, I'm going to start writing some primers for each match explaining the history of each guy in one of the main events and listing some of their best matches.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:18 AM   #48
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Undercard is great too imo.


Again the only reason I dropped NJPW World is due to the UI being so poor. The content is great.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:49 AM   #49
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Yeah, I dig the undercard too, just I know some people will burn out if they watch any one thing for that long.
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:30 PM   #50
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This is a bit of a weird one. I mean, a great coup for Jericho and Omega given the number of eyes it'll get on the show with expansion being a key for 2018. But I can't help but feel that with the benefit of hindsight, they probably should have saved Ibushi/Tanahashi for the Dome as well. White and Cody just don't do it for me as their opponents, and I imagine they dropped the previous plan of Omega/Ibushi on a dime for the Jericho match.





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Old 11-06-2017, 03:40 PM   #51
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Business wise Jericho is the rigth call all day everyday...but for a match aspect...and me as a mark Ibushi would have been much better.


Follow the money though.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:39 PM   #52
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Wouldn't be surprised if this is due to Ibushi still not wanting to commit to NJPW even with them dangling a high profile match with Omega as an incentive for a while.

NJPW loses out on Omega-Ibushi at the Dome but potentially have that match available for other future events like the next G1 Special in the US.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:48 PM   #53
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I watched the video about ten times. I cannot believe this is happening. Jericho wrestling outside the WWE for the first time this millennium is the attraction for me. Do I expect it to be a great match? Not in the traditional wrestling sense, but I do have stronger emotions about it than any Jericho match in a long, long time.

I'm fairly certain this is bucket list stuff. Jericho wants to get in the ring with Omega and there is no time like the present. He's going to be the best he can be. Go in with low expectations and this will exceed them. I'm so fucking exhausted of everyone trying to have the best match on the card too. It'd be nice if more people focused on telling a story. Jericho's creativity will be put to good use here.

The rest of the card? I'm going to sound like a cynic, but Tanahashi/Jay White sounds like a waste of Tanahashi. I'm not trying to talk shit about Jay White -- I've never really watched him, and I'm happy for a New Zealand guy to get exposure. Okada came out of nowhere too and that's worked out for them. It's just not shaping up to be the super-card you'd expect outside Okada/Naito. Even if they were doing Tanahashi against someone else and Switchblade against Ibushi. Something about The Ace going against a new gimmick just feels rushed.

I'm still shocked Jericho, as an artist, has chosen someone other than WWE. I'm sure Vince knew about this, don't get me wrong, but nothing has been able to lure Jericho away before.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:39 PM   #54
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According to Pro Wrestling Sheet, Jericho and NJPW had a deal in place since August for Jericho to make an appearance at Wrestle Kingdom 12.

WWE might have also played a role in this decision since Jericho contacted them to lend some NXT stars for his boat cruise and they rejected it because they refused to work with NJPW and ROH and also for Jericho's idea in general for a cruise.

http://www.prowrestlingsheet.com/chr.../#.WgCJk91mPIU


In regards to Ibushi-Omega, rumor going around the net is NJPW wants the match to occur at the next US event for the company.
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:17 AM   #55
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I know nothing about Jay White. Having seen his reveal as Switchblade, it seems kinda weird seeing a guy who looks like a clear babyface (right down to actually having a babyface) portraying a stab-happy bad guy.

Having said that, they clearly think very highly of him to throw him straight into a match with Tanahashi at the biggest show of the year, so I'll give it a shot.
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:32 AM   #56
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So 6 matches have been booked (7 if you count the pre-show New Japan Rumble), and likely at least 3 more to come since all of the titles are contested on the show.

Suzuki I assume will defend the NEVER Openweight against someone from Chaos, probably Ishii or Goto.

LIJ would then defend the 6-man belts against another Chaos contingent, probably whoever isn't fighting Suzuki between Ishii/Goto along with Yoshi-Hashi and Yano. Although maybe they give Beretta a spot after his great showing against Omega.

The IWGP Tag Titles, who the hell knows. There are so many directions they can go with the G1 Tag League to set up #1 contendership.
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:16 AM   #57
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Killer Elite Squad are the current champions. I imagine that GoD will be in there. I imagine that they'll want a Japanese team in there too. Looking at the G1 Tag League, I could see it being Goto & Yoshi-Hashi. Maybe they take GoD out of the match and just have it be straight-forward for the belts? That could actually be a pretty nice match.

That leaves Suzuki with Ishii, which would be a fucking sick match.

Six-man belts are held by Bushi, Evil and Sanada, so I can see them going against Beretta and maybe...fuck, maybe Elgin & Jeff Cobb? Or maybe they want some Japanese legends on the show there. I dunno, but I think LIJ against Beretta, Elgin & Cobb would be nice.

Throw in a giant tag team match to get others on the card. Maybe GoD, Bad Luck Fale, Chase Owens & Hangman Page vs. Togi Makabe, Henare, Yuji Nagata & Tencozy. I dunno.

Could be a really solid show.
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:45 AM   #58
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Probably not gonna happen, but I would really like Iishi to get a run with IWGP title. Even if it's a short run. Dude deserves it. Been putting in work for years, and is one of the most fun people to watch on the roster. ANd given the roster, that's saying a lot.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:07 AM   #59
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I've heard tremendous things about Ishii. Are people sure that they are switching the belt to Naito at Wrestle Kingdom? Even so, I can see someone like Ishii winning it throughout the year.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:26 AM   #60
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Naito is winning that thing. Not gonna say it's a 100% lock, but it's close. Naito is the #1 merch seller right now, and is over like crazy. Plus Naito winning the title at WK is a great story, given his backstory.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:29 AM   #61
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Yeah, Okada's reign has to end someday and it's Naito's time.

What I'm not sure of is where Okada goes from here. There is quite frankly nothing left for him to accomplish in NJPW. He'll churn out great matches no matter what they do with him but it's tough to imagine him competing for a secondary title even though secondary titles in NJPW are way more prestigious than WWE's secondary titles.

I'm sure we'll hear Okada to WWE rumors but they'd turn him into just another guy so fast it'll make your head spin.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:34 AM   #62
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There is nothing about Okada that would work in the fed. It wouldnt be their fault. He needs to stay where is he is.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:40 AM   #63
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changed the thread title to match the direction the thread has taken
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:35 PM   #64
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I don't want to see anyone go to WWE tbh. Well I mean, I do if money is someone's top motivator but I'm sure they're looking at Nakamura right now and realizing that the higher pay will come at the sacrifice of artistic expression and being anything more than just another spoke in the wheel.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:14 AM   #65
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Yeah, Okada's reign has to end someday and it's Naito's time.

What I'm not sure of is where Okada goes from here. There is quite frankly nothing left for him to accomplish in NJPW. He'll churn out great matches no matter what they do with him but it's tough to imagine him competing for a secondary title even though secondary titles in NJPW are way more prestigious than WWE's secondary titles.

I'm sure we'll hear Okada to WWE rumors but they'd turn him into just another guy so fast it'll make your head spin.
Don't they have Okada signed on for like five years at $2 million a year? He's not going anywhere. I don't follow New Japan as closely as others here, but I'm not even certain he's losing the belt. Isn't his reign the longest in company history right now? Is it getting tired? It seems like New Japan has been onwards and upwards. You don't want to keep it on him too long, but with the idea to get so many new eyeballs onto the company with the Jericho appearance, Gedo might want to put the franchise player over.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:20 AM   #66
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I just did some research into how long Nakamura is signed to the WWE for. Apparently the Observer reported it was 3 years. I wondered if we were coming up to a potential release for him.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:29 AM   #67
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I just did some research into how long Nakamura is signed to the WWE for. Apparently the Observer reported it was 3 years. I wondered if we were coming up to a potential release for him.
Honestly, I think he'll re-sign unless the travel schedule is too much. He doesn't feel like he has to go out there and either kill himself or others with the style he works and more than likely earns a decent chunk of change more than he did between NJPW and indie appearances.

He's 37 now. I think he'll sign another contract on top and then maybe have a legend run in NJPW.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:23 AM   #68
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It wouldn't surprise me. It's hard to gauge the success of Nakamura. In one sense, he feels a lot "colder" on the internet. It feels like they've stifled the things that made him Nakamura and lent him the perception of being the most charismatic guy in wrestling. On the other hand, they've put him over Cena and Orton, compared him to Cena (he sort of got put symbolically in Cena's place after WrestleMania) and I'm sure he's known more to fans in the US now.

WWE doesn't want tall nails, they want guys to be "WWE over" in the sense that they feel part of the show. Since he's feeling quite gentrified, it really does feel like he's part of the show. Maybe this is all part of their plan? I mean, all he needs to do is go out there and have another blinder with Zayn or one with Styles and people will be on his dick again.

Culture shock can be huge for Japanese guys too. I was reading an article about how there's actually a name for the depression they often get when they go abroad. It's possible that Nakamura is still adjusting to being on the road so far from Japan, etc.

I dunno, maybe WWE considers him a roaring a success by their own metrics, which are the only metrics that really matter to them. So it wouldn't surprise me if he is re-signed and spends the rest of his career there. It also wouldn't surprise me if this time next year reports bubble that he's massively unhappy, feels suffocated as an artist and wants to go back to New Japan.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:04 AM   #69
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One thing I have to give credit to Nakamura for is that he recognizes that sometimes less is more. He can ease it back and he'll still get the desired reaction. It's led to the perception in some circles of the internet that he's lazy and phoning it in, but I really don't think that's the truth. He's just smart enough to know he needs to pace himself with the WWE travel schedule what it is, and that it's dumb to kill himself in a 20 minute TV match nobody is going to remember the next week.

I actually feel bad for the guys and gals who go balls out on TV every week. As a viewer, I already know I don't have to pay attention to the first part of the match because I know nothing important will happen as they're just gonna get the match to ad break. Then they wrestle all through ad break, and maybe I'll start to pay attention once they're back from ad. So by this point they've been wrestling a good 10-12 minutes before I started to care, and then they often throw in a bunch of unnecessary dives and high spots for a match that isn't gonna mean anything.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:11 AM   #70
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I'm not saying WWE need to go back to the Attitude Era days of every TV match being wrapped up within 3 minutes, but they should find a happy medium between than and having longass matches that don't really advance the story.

NJPW do that really well with all the tag matches they run on their undercard. It gives the fans the chance to see everyone and they find a way to advance the stories during those matches without anyone needing to kill themselves. Imagine how many of the 40+ year old wrestlers on the NJPW roster would have to be retired by now if they needed to work WWE style matches every night no matter what.

By extension it also makes the singles matches feel like a big deal. PPVs just feel like another Raw or SD because watching people wrestle 1 on 1 in a long form match is something that happens each and every show.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:44 PM   #71
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It's nice to see you're coming around to that viewpoint, Vito.

The other myth circulating around the internet I see way too much of is that Brock is lazy and can't work anymore. It's infuriating, haha. If you do everything you've got every week, suddenly it stops mattering. Everybody in the WWE wrestles the same match and I don't get how they expect the same content again and again, week in and week out, to elicit the same emotional spikes in people. When people kick out of the first pin attempt in a match because of something that was used as a finisher of someone else 15 years ago and they wrestler holds his head in disbelief at the resilience of this competitor, I just get baffled. How can anyone expect this to be end? What precedent do you have for that?

I, personally, got the feeling that the Nakamura magic is gone because they've got him in chinlocks rolling around the ring like he's Funaki every week. That Ziggler match was a mistake right out the gate. That being said, you might have a better broader philosophical point. I've heard good things about the match with Cena, Orton, etc. The ones that matter. The only ones that were meant to be good and tanked have been with Ziggler (and I do blame Ziggler for that) and Mahal (and Mahal fucking sucks).

I think they need to sort of clear the land a bit and remind some of their talent how to tell a unique story. A lot of the finises are rudimentary and obvious too. Talent fall into these holding patterns of things they think you do in wrestling now, but make them look stupid. The distraction finishes, for example. They should go back to booking the general flow of matches, and giving out finishes that are organic and natural. Right now it feels like they just give them the time, they all do the same match, then the finish is either "You go over clean with your finish," "you get distracted by music" or "Singh Brothers make you look dumb."
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:41 PM   #72
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Fucking FINALLY, NJPW have started subtitling the backstage promos. The Power Struggle after show is now subtitled in English.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...lGzFvihJwI5b32
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:31 PM   #73
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:17 PM   #74
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Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
That's fucking awesome.
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Old 11-11-2017, 06:04 PM   #75
#BrotherVito DELETED
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#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Usually this time of the year I'm dreading that we're still 2 and a half months away from the Rumble. Fuck that. This is the show I can't wait to see.
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:08 PM   #76
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#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#1-wwf-fan is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
I'm looking forward to it, too. For all the talk of Jericho having lost a step or two or ten, I don't give that much of a fuck. It's probably not gonna steal the show. But I'm a big spectacle guy. It'll be a cool thing to see.
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:26 PM   #77
Fignuts
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Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Fignuts is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Yeah, I had always followed puroresu, but last january was the first time I decided to go all in and watch every show after seeing Wrestle Kingdom. Haven't regretted it since.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:59 PM   #78
#BROKEN Hasney
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#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Yeah, I've been watching for a few years now, basically after they started to upswing from being in the pits not so long ago. I like how they course correct when something isn't working like Naito since WWE refuses to sometimes and they make better use of the ROH guys than ROH usually do.

I am going to do that write up of the feuds, but felt like it makes more sense closer to the time when a bit more of the undercard is firmed up.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:03 PM   #79
Noid
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Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
I would like it if Kota Ibushi beat Cody for the ROH World Title.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:41 AM   #80
#BROKEN Hasney
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#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BROKEN Hasney is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I would like it if Kota Ibushi beat Cody for the ROH World Title.
Same. I was thinking that Dalton Castle might beat Cody and make the title part moot, but I just read that if Dalton wins, he replaces Cody against Ibushi so I can't see that happening.
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