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Old 01-27-2016, 02:00 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Yeah not trying to dismiss you here, but I don't think any of those had more potential than what they got. Fandango and Sandow are both Curtain jerkers. Fun curtain jerkers, but never had the IT factor.

Ziggler was and is a semi main event hand. He's a guy you can stick in there with other guys and give you a good little match. Up until the last 6 or 12 months I would say he's been pushed really hard. Always at or near the top of the card. But then he stated to run his mouth publically and ventured into other forms of entertainment. Hard to put the machine behind someone who has one foot out the door.
I mean do you just think of dumb stuff to say. Their top guy (Cena) has his feet in so many doors an octopus would struggle to keep up. Ziggler having a comedy act shouldnt hurt his position with the company. Ziggler just resigned withh WWE last year, if he had one foot out the door he would have left then.
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Old 01-27-2016, 02:10 PM   #162
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Why didnt they stick with the vickie and dolph sleazy boy toy story? That to me is when dolph really seemed legit cause he could be a chicken shit heel. He's been bland as fuck any other way. Didnt they turn him face with punks girl? I forget
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Old 01-27-2016, 02:11 PM   #163
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Fandango has the size, the look, the charisma, the in-ring skills... Take away the comedy gimmick and he's face of the company material. There's literally nothing he doesn't have. Push him hard, make him the champ eventually and then throw him out on media appearances and he makes the company look like a million bucks.
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Old 01-27-2016, 02:11 PM   #164
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I don't run in crews. So it wouldn't have worked out.
I kind of meant the opposite boff
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Old 01-27-2016, 02:14 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Fandango has the size, the look, the charisma, the in-ring skills... Take away the comedy gimmick and he's face of the company material. There's literally nothing he doesn't have. Push him hard, make him the champ eventually and then throw him out on media appearances and he makes the company look like a million bucks.
If he had an actual name and lost the shit gimmick absolutely. If you are in his spot what do you do though, how do you go to creative and say hey I tried but we all knew your idea was stupid. Uncomfortable position for him
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Old 01-27-2016, 06:39 PM   #166
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I mean do you just think of dumb stuff to say. Their top guy (Cena) has his feet in so many doors an octopus would struggle to keep up. Ziggler having a comedy act shouldnt hurt his position with the company. Ziggler just resigned withh WWE last year, if he had one foot out the door he would have left then.
John Cena had never missed time for an outside protect to my knowledge prior to this past fall. He's been the ultimate company guy.

It's fine Dolph wants to be a comic. But if he wants to be THE GUY in the company, he needs to be ready to be fully dedicated. If I was WWE brass and I see a guy actively branching out to another form of entertainment, I pump the breaks in pushing him. Sure he can be a guy on the show every week, but I don't want all my eggs in his basket
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:51 PM   #167
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ooooshhhh they just announced Nakamura vs. Sami Zayn @ Takeover: Dallas during WM weekend. Pretty perfect spot really given it'll probably be quite a "smarky" crowd so he should get a huge reaction
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:17 PM   #168
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Should be good, dont guess Sami/Owens will be happening at WM now.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:21 PM   #169
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I'm optimistic about Styles. I don't think WWE is nearly as hostile towards workrate guys as people make them out to be, even when the guys are a bit lacking in other areas, I mean I was happy when Daniel Bryan was signed but I never thought he would go as far as he did, and guys like Cesaro may have not where we wanted him to be, but it was not like he was treated like a Curtis Axel or Adam Rose.

CSL is right when he said AJ is world class talent and it takes a lot of work and dedication to get as good as AJ is, and I think that work and dedication will go far in the WWE, and while ROH, TNA and Japan may be "small ponds" it does take a versatile talent to dominate all three of them and then land a WWE contract.
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:02 AM   #170
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
ooooshhhh they just announced Nakamura vs. Sami Zayn @ Takeover: Dallas during WM weekend. Pretty perfect spot really given it'll probably be quite a "smarky" crowd so he should get a huge reaction
I thought they said he was skipping NXT, but damn, am I glad he's not with that match.
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Old 01-28-2016, 06:02 AM   #171
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AJ has something marketable to him. I know because it's something I could identify as a mark in The Rock, Chris Jericho and Rob Van Dam. Styles is "cool" in the way that "cool people" are cool. He can do cool moves, he walk out on the stage and look cool, and people will genuinely love him.

No, I don't think he will be as big as The Rock. His presence isn't as extroverted as that. But he's got that inherent "what a wrestler" charisma. He'll make a good action figure, video game character, TV shirt clothesline and he'll have great matches to boot. Not worried about AJ Styles in the slightest.
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:33 PM   #172
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Thumbs up

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AJ has something marketable to him. I know because it's something I could identify as a mark in The Rock, Chris Jericho and Rob Van Dam. Styles is "cool" in the way that "cool people" are cool. He can do cool moves, he walk out on the stage and look cool, and people will genuinely love him.

No, I don't think he will be as big as The Rock. His presence isn't as extroverted as that. But he's got that inherent "what a wrestler" charisma. He'll make a good action figure, video game character, TV shirt clothesline and he'll have great matches to boot. Not worried about AJ Styles in the slightest.
The thing with AJ is that he has a ton of in ring charisma since he stopped looking and acting like a goober like he did in TNA up until his last angle where he found his current look... But that's not enough to be 'the guy' in WWE.

He may have changed his look and attitude to not be a goober, but he'll always talk like a goober. Which is a shame, because just on in ring action, it's been between him and Nakamura for the past couple of years as who has 'it' the most.

Although to be fair, Omega is probably uo there now as well.
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Old 01-28-2016, 06:29 PM   #173
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What's that thing they like to say in the WWE - "Perception is reality"

Well if that's the case, then by the reaction AJ got when he made his debut at the Rumble the perception amongst WWE fans (even ones who have no clue what TNA is or what it used to be) has to be that AJ Styles is a star and a big deal. If the WWE run with that and book him as a star then he has all the chance in the world of getting over huge with the WWE audience.

I watched him in TNA and having watched his development in Japan, I think he is entering the WWE at the perfect time, at his absolute best. He always had the talent but his psychology has improved immeasurably since he returned to TNA as the loner character.

I'm optimistic with him and I hope they end up going with him vs Kevin Owens at Wrestlemania. As I said in either the Raw or Royal Rumble thread, put those two together in the ring and you have to Wrestlemania 32 what Orton vs Rollins was to Wrestlemania 31.
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:02 PM   #174
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Quote:
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Yeah not trying to dismiss you here, but I don't think any of those had more potential than what they got. Fandango and Sandow are both Curtain jerkers. Fun curtain jerkers, but never had the IT factor.

Ziggler was and is a semi main event hand. He's a guy you can stick in there with other guys and give you a good little match. Up until the last 6 or 12 months I would say he's been pushed really hard. Always at or near the top of the card. But then he stated to run his mouth publically and ventured into other forms of entertainment. Hard to put the machine behind someone who has one foot out the door.
... unless that's what WWE plans for you, you mean.

No bones have been made about this exact thing being the endgame for being behind Roman from the get go. But someone other than pre-picked people wanting to try their hand at other shit? Preposterous!

And Zigs has never truly been consistently pushed. He is one of those start/stop victims.

One of the biggest problems with WWE booking is exactly what you said about Sandow and Fandango: the idea that certain people are "fun curtain jerkers" and nothing more. If they get presented that way all the time, people will ultimately think just that. WWE themselves have the ability to change ghat perception for a good majority of their roster. They just don't.

Right now, you have AJ Styles. The major knock I've read in this thread is how he doesn't have anything others on the roster don't. I disagree. He has his name. In spite of the WWE idea of "TNA doesn't exist", people who watch wrestling know who the fucking guy is. He got a good pop at the Rumble simply from the word "phenomenal" appearing on a screen. His match with Jericho, while nothing earth-shaking, was pretty damn decent considering they haven't crossed paths. In-ring, it was back and forth enough to give AJ footing to show a WWE crowd (kayfabe wise) he "can hang with a big name". He also is a decent wrestler. The teasing of the heel turn by Chris also opens a door for a feud, which would give AJ something to do on TV to help those unfamiliar give a shit. There announce team did something they rarely seemed to do since the departure of JR: put over in-ring talent that isn't Cena being "freakishly strong" or something to blow smoke over everyone about Roman. (Although, to be fair, it *is* getting better... but it is slow going, and likely out of neccessity with the whole plague of injuries issue- they HAVE to try to put people over in the booth).

And they did it to the guy who was, for quite awhile, the FRANCHISE of that wrestling show that doesn't exist. They could have just as easily planted the usual "who is this goof?" Or "He doesn't belong here!" types of ear worms that don't shine decent light on up-and-coming talent. The only remaining obstacle is if, after the assumed feud with Jericho is over, he gets demoted to Main Event duty and is not seen for like 6-8 months on a show people actually watch.

It is a good start in presentation. His only flaw might be his promo ability (I don't mean his accent), and Jeff Hardy became a goddamn megastar years ago with less ability on the stick than AJ. And this shouldn't have to be prefaced (but of course it does), I'm not suggesting AJ gets a rocket up his ass and he headlines WrestleMania for the championship, but not automatically pigeonhole him into a curtain-jerking position just because he isn't tall like Strowman or fondly remembered from WCW like Sting, either.
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Old 02-06-2016, 02:43 AM   #175
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Rattled if they don't get Nakamura's theme... Rattled.
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Old 02-06-2016, 06:38 AM   #176
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Rattled if they don't get Nakamura's theme... Rattled.
Truth.

Probably one of my favorite themes in all of wrestling.
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Old 04-12-2016, 03:45 PM   #177
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Well there all here now. Nakamura had one hell of a debut and should be a star in WWE. Gallows and Anderson's debut was interesting and felt like a Hall and Nash situation. Is AJ going to be the 3rd guy, maybe Finn, maybe both? Could just be a tag team to with no one else. Really interested to see where they go with them.
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Old 04-15-2016, 02:01 AM   #178
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Gallows and Anderson's debut was interesting and felt like a Hall and Nash situation.
I know that a lot of people are excited for this, but can we please dial down the hyperbole. Nothing about their debut was even in the same hemisphere as the Outsiders. At all.
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:13 AM   #179
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Well I don't know Condor. Not saying they will BE Hall and Nash, but keep in Mind Scott Hall came out and cut a promo during a Mike Enos match.

They came out with nice heat, you can only see where it goes from here. Hopefully at worst it's those two beasts squashing the Usos.
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:32 AM   #180
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Well I don't know Condor. Not saying they will BE Hall and Nash, but keep in Mind Scott Hall came out and cut a promo during a Mike Enos match.

They came out with nice heat, you can only see where it goes from here. Hopefully at worst it's those two beasts squashing the Usos.
Showing up on RAW unannounced is where the comparison ends, though.

Hall and Nash were top guys for the competition. They were well known, and even if WCW fans didn't watch the WWF product chances are they remembered these guys from their runs a few years earlier. I would surmise that only maybe 20-25% of the RAW audience was aware of Anderson and Gallows in Japan. Therefore, vocal smarks are excited, but the overall audience isn't thinking "oh shit, this is a big deal," especially when a lot of guys have debuted in such a way the passed two decades.

Also, there really wasn't a proliferation of smarks and dirtsheets in 1996-- kayfabe was still alive and the entire ordeal came across as confusing, exciting, and legit. It had intrigue. This, taken for what it is so far, is not. It's two guys attacking a stale and flagging tag team from the crowd.

For the record, I am not saying that the club will fail or that this is off on the wrong foot at all. But the Outsiders were a big deal JUST for showing up and cutting promos, wreaking havoc, etc... and I think that 2 decades later, with a WWE monopoly, the meteoric impact of Nash and Hall is being severely undersold. The whatever they're going to name it Club could be the reincarnation of the NWO, but it's a hackeneyed comparison to make after their appearance on RAW. It is not industry or history changing, it is just introducing new characters in the universe at this point.
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:54 AM   #181
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Showing up on RAW unannounced is where the comparison ends, though.

Hall and Nash were top guys for the competition. They were well known, and even if WCW fans didn't watch the WWF product chances are they remembered these guys from their runs a few years earlier. I would surmise that only maybe 20-25% of the RAW audience was aware of Anderson and Gallows in Japan. Therefore, vocal smarks are excited, but the overall audience isn't thinking "oh shit, this is a big deal," especially when a lot of guys have debuted in such a way the passed two decades.

Also, there really wasn't a proliferation of smarks and dirtsheets in 1996-- kayfabe was still alive and the entire ordeal came across as confusing, exciting, and legit. It had intrigue. This, taken for what it is so far, is not. It's two guys attacking a stale and flagging tag team from the crowd.

For the record, I am not saying that the club will fail or that this is off on the wrong foot at all. But the Outsiders were a big deal JUST for showing up and cutting promos, wreaking havoc, etc... and I think that 2 decades later, with a WWE monopoly, the meteoric impact of Nash and Hall is being severely undersold. The whatever they're going to name it Club could be the reincarnation of the NWO, but it's a hackeneyed comparison to make after their appearance on RAW. It is not industry or history changing, it is just introducing new characters in the universe at this point.
It's a similar entrance, but I do agree generally. It was a pretty cool way to debut them and with them coming from NJPW, they probably are coming from the #2 promotion so unless they did it with AJ and Nakamura when they came in, it probably is the closest we could get to Nash and Hall in 2016. Who else could they do it with, Roode and Young?
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:02 AM   #182
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Showing up on RAW unannounced is where the comparison ends, though.

Hall and Nash were top guys for the competition. They were well known, and even if WCW fans didn't watch the WWF product chances are they remembered these guys from their runs a few years earlier. I would surmise that only maybe 20-25% of the RAW audience was aware of Anderson and Gallows in Japan. Therefore, vocal smarks are excited, but the overall audience isn't thinking "oh shit, this is a big deal," especially when a lot of guys have debuted in such a way the passed two decades.

Also, there really wasn't a proliferation of smarks and dirtsheets in 1996-- kayfabe was still alive and the entire ordeal came across as confusing, exciting, and legit. It had intrigue. This, taken for what it is so far, is not. It's two guys attacking a stale and flagging tag team from the crowd.

For the record, I am not saying that the club will fail or that this is off on the wrong foot at all. But the Outsiders were a big deal JUST for showing up and cutting promos, wreaking havoc, etc... and I think that 2 decades later, with a WWE monopoly, the meteoric impact of Nash and Hall is being severely undersold. The whatever they're going to name it Club could be the reincarnation of the NWO, but it's a hackeneyed comparison to make after their appearance on RAW. It is not industry or history changing, it is just introducing new characters in the universe at this point.

He'll always be Festus to me, I don't know what else other fans expect, but this is Tensai all over again. He'll get over this Biker Festus gimmick and return to form soon
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:43 AM   #183
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He'll always be Festus to me, I don't know what else other fans expect, but this is Tensai all over again. He'll get over this Biker Festus gimmick and return to form soon
He finished his wwe run AS Luke Gallows though so the WWE fans have seen him switch gimmicks already.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:58 AM   #184
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I still remember Albert coming back form Japan as Tensai and they scrapped that. I'm just hoping for more Festus. It'll come years down the road in a battle royal
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:01 AM   #185
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It's a similar entrance, but I do agree generally. It was a pretty cool way to debut them and with them coming from NJPW, they probably are coming from the #2 promotion so unless they did it with AJ and Nakamura when they came in, it probably is the closest we could get to Nash and Hall in 2016. Who else could they do it with, Roode and Young?
Just because this is the closest thing to the Outsiders does not make it comparable to the Outsiders arriving in WCW. Most likely nothing ever will.
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:31 AM   #186
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I still remember Albert coming back form Japan as Tensai and they scrapped that. I'm just hoping for more Festus. It'll come years down the road in a battle royal
Tensai was also a terrible gimmick and was always going to get shit on. It's a little different to BMF the jumps over the rail and bashes some dudes.

Even Bray started as Husky Harris, and it was so obvious it was the same guy so you did hear the chants at first, but they died down due to the strength of his character work.
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:20 PM   #187
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Imagine if Gallows and Anderson had debuted exactly as they did on Monday except Gallows' name is now "Festus Gallows". Would've been impossible to take him seriously.
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:21 PM   #188
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Or they could have pulled a name out of the NXT Name Generator and called him Festus L. Fakekane
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:21 PM   #189
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or Sex Ferguson
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:12 PM   #190
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:34 PM   #191
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Old 04-16-2016, 01:03 AM   #192
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In regards to Gallows & Anderson's debut comparisons to Hall & Nash's debut, even if both guys fail to pull off the Outsiders vibe, the WWE still has the "who's the 3rd man" mystery surrounding their debut.

Similar to how Hogan generated more interest than Nash and Hall when he was revealed, Finn Balor or AJ Styles will do the same once the Club gets officially formed.
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Old 04-17-2016, 04:52 AM   #193
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I still say put them with Reigns. Have them screw Styles and watch people go up in arms about it. You can reference their history, and the reason they give for turning on AJ is that they're big players now and don't have a use for Styles. The Usos can also be like "What the fuck, bro?" to Roman, and you can run some fun television six-man tags.
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:45 PM   #194
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In regards to Gallows & Anderson's debut comparisons to Hall & Nash's debut, even if both guys fail to pull off the Outsiders vibe, the WWE still has the "who's the 3rd man" mystery surrounding their debut.

Similar to how Hogan generated more interest than Nash and Hall when he was revealed, Finn Balor or AJ Styles will do the same once the Club gets officially formed.
Has there been any hints to a third man? I don't follow the twitter, but has there been scuttlebutt there? Regardless, we don't need a rehash of the NWO, just let these guys be themselves and do what they do best.

In another thread I lamented how NXT fans try to peg up and coming guys as "the next______", and this is a blatant case of it. Sami Zayn is not Daniel Bryan, Apollo Crews is not Ahmed Johnson or Bobby Lashley, Bullet Club is not the NWO, and Asuka is not Bull Nakano. As wrestling fans, we ought to let them blaze their own trails before putting ridiculous expectations on them. Tyler Breeze is no Rick Martel, and the Ascension is no Demolition, and we ought not peg anybody else with someone else's gimmick or look.
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Old 04-17-2016, 09:08 PM   #195
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Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Emperor Smeat is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Finn and Anderson have made several tweets joking about the situation and the WWE themselves also teasing a Balor Club possibly forming with Finn's merch and recent interviews. Doesn't mean Finn will be the third man but prior to Styles arriving in the WWE and sudden WWE title shot, he made the most sense as the possible boss.

A very reliable source from within the WWE who leaked a bunch of stuff recently basically hinted the WWE has plans to rehash the Outsiders/nWo angle with Anderson & Gallows. Even the Observer's own sources hinted that was a major reason why the WWE did its recent NJPW talent raid.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:02 PM   #196
Swiss
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Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Swiss is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Finn and Anderson have made several tweets joking about the situation and the WWE themselves also teasing a Balor Club possibly forming with Finn's merch and recent interviews. Doesn't mean Finn will be the third man but prior to Styles arriving in the WWE and sudden WWE title shot, he made the most sense as the possible boss.

A very reliable source from within the WWE who leaked a bunch of stuff recently basically hinted the WWE has plans to rehash the Outsiders/nWo angle with Anderson & Gallows. Even the Observer's own sources hinted that was a major reason why the WWE did its recent NJPW talent raid.
Did this happen?
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:05 PM   #197
Destor
I am the cheese
 
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Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Less than 25% of the observers "reports" happen
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:05 PM   #198
Destor
I am the cheese
 
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Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Destor is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
But hey people watch cnnn everyday so whatever
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