05-23-2018, 02:17 AM | #1 |
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Who has been the biggest beneficiary of revisionist history?
What wrestling figure (be it wrestler, manager, promoter, announcer) has benefitted most from revisionist history? As in they've been made out to be a bigger star or more successful than they really were in their heyday. My pick is The Fabulous Moolah. She was a mediocre wrestler, never a draw reportedly and blocked other women wrestlers' opportunities (including some of her own proteges). When New York legalized women's wrestling in the early '70s and MSG lifted the ban on women's wrestling, Moolah got the spot against Vicki Williams in the first women's match at the Garden. This was partly by design as she blocked other women (including Betty Niccoli) from working WWWF shows. In the mid-80s, she had a protege named Mad Maxine (some of you might remember) who WWE planned to have feud w/ Wendi Richter and appear in the Rock 'N Wrestling cartoon. Moolah called the office telling WWE Maxine was too green and took her spot in the cartoon. Next she prevented the chance of a Glamour Girls-Jumping Bomb Angels match at WrestleMania as she interfered w/ a planned title change. Not to mention her supposed 28 yr reign, which was really 10 and involved multiple title changes WWE didn't acknowledge when she sold the belt to them in the early '80s. Might be fair to say that Moolah only enjoys the legacy she has b/c of her closeness to the McMahons.
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05-24-2018, 09:33 AM | #2 |
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The Undertaker and Triple H are both two dudes who, because of their standing with the dominant company that most modern fans are familiar with, get their historical significance emboldened.
Okay, Taker was a big deal when he showed up. He apparently did draw well until they did that Yoko casket angle, and then he fucking stunk up the joint against useless big dudes, then didn't draw as champion. When you get to the Attitude era, he sucks, but Vince is desperate for talent, but he doesn't really work well with Austin or Rock. He gets fat and shit, gets hurt, comes back as the biker, sticks his fist in everyone's business and by that point he has tenure and is really revered by everyone in the business and it kind of confuses me. Also, I hate the streak and I think it is a reasonable hypothesis to suggest that it may have blocked off better routes for business. Triple H didn't matter until 1999. He only drew with bigger stars and when he came back as a babyface people got sick of him real fast. His charisma is forced, and while he is really good, he's been pushed for so hard and so long for someone that has returned as little as he has. Oh, and I like to throw out Vince Russo's names in these too. Because so many fans grew up with the Attitude era, and they kind of believe the narrative that Russo was the architect of it as opposed to a passenger on the train they take this apologetic stance and attribute the overall direction to him and it's a bit gross to me, because I really, really hate Russo, and think you can look at basically anything he has done on his own and instantly dispel any suggestion that he is a genius or that he could find his dick if he was strung up being threatened by Yamaguchi san. |
05-24-2018, 02:47 PM | #3 |
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I'd say Trips more than Taker. He's on the B Level. Significant enough to be considered a major part of the Attitude Era but not on the level of Austin and Rock. As for Russo he didn't have that buffer when he went to WCW. His importance is definitely overstated m.
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05-25-2018, 10:36 PM | #4 |
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I'm just amazed at how many people defend Russo today. It just does my head in. He has sucked everywhere but the WWF, which was carried by the hottest star of all-time and is notoriously known for being micromanaged by a man who was on the back foot during that period. I just don't get the narrative of "Vince Russo comes in, his brain makes things hot." It's correlation; not causation.
I'd agree with Trips benefitting more than Taker. There's this inflated significance to Trips that gets him scaffolded up there before he even means anything. Taker meant something first, at least. |
05-26-2018, 01:02 AM | #5 |
EATER OF HOT POCKETS
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Russo didn't do shit to contribute to the popularity of the Attitude Era. Austin and the Rick made themselves what they were and were helped along by Taker, HHH, and others. All Russo did is write some show formats and give retarded gimmicks to the mid and lower card guys.
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05-26-2018, 01:53 AM | #6 |
I am the cheese
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Russo absolutely did. People over look Sables role in the product in 98/99. Sables bit was 98% russo. It may be an easy angle to book but sable drew the eye balls of every 13yr old kid in the nation. She was as big of a deal as literally anyone on the roster at their absolute peak.
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05-26-2018, 02:14 AM | #7 | |
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05-26-2018, 03:12 AM | #8 |
I am the cheese
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Imo sable is the one thing that got over that you can credit to Russo
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05-26-2018, 07:24 AM | #9 |
Fire up Chips!
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Andre the Giant was really only a 5'6 vanilla midget. He had lifts and they put him on boxes
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05-26-2018, 10:00 AM | #10 |
Best Poster
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Ravishing Rick Rude.
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05-26-2018, 11:51 AM | #11 | ||
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05-26-2018, 12:29 PM | #12 |
Tongue my Fartbox
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05-26-2018, 01:48 PM | #13 |
Best Poster
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05-26-2018, 03:19 PM | #14 |
VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT
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The biggest beneficiary is Vince McMohan.
Think about it... |
05-26-2018, 03:27 PM | #15 |
I am the cheese
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05-26-2018, 03:35 PM | #16 | |
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05-26-2018, 04:33 PM | #17 |
Celestia's Left Hand
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I say Triple H. Revisionist history has allow him to position himself as the greatest gift a wrestling ring has ever seen when anyone who grew up with him knows that that's not the case. What drives me really nuts is that it has seemingly worked people who didn't grow up seeing Triple H get to where he is now just see him as this sort of legendary figure.
Even when he assumed the leadership of DX he felt secondary the group as a whole was a big deal but nobody in that group was Main Event material at least not without Shawn Michaels. He got his main event push literally after all the big guns had done everything. And by the time he got up there wrestling was cooling off. Just to remind myself that this is completely true I have old TV guides where they featured wrestlers on them. Triple H isn't on any of the covers he isn't even mentioned inside the book. |
05-26-2018, 07:34 PM | #18 |
Former TPWW Royalty
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Triple H followed by Vince McMahon.
WWE's revisionist history has made Triple H into a much bigger star than he really was during the Attitude Era. While he did have some memorable moments during the era, he was also just another cog in the system considering how many big stars WWE had during that time. Same for WWE's revisionist history making Ted Turner into the big boogeyman of wrestling when Vince was pulling similar tactics prior and after the Monday Night Wars. |
05-26-2018, 08:08 PM | #19 | |
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05-26-2018, 10:23 PM | #20 | |
Resident drug enabler
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05-26-2018, 10:25 PM | #21 |
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Watching old 98 Raws, she wasn't as over as Austin but she wasn't far off.
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05-26-2018, 11:35 PM | #22 |
I am the cheese
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05-27-2018, 10:33 AM | #23 |
Resident drug enabler
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Do you think WWE losing Sable would have hurt them as much as losing Austin or Rock? If so, you're crazy. If not, then she wasn't as big of a deal. I get the point you were trying to make in playing devil's advocate for Russo but you're clearly exaggerating for effect.
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05-27-2018, 10:51 AM | #24 |
boop/bop/beep
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05-27-2018, 10:51 AM | #25 |
boop/bop/beep
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I think Sable was big to the fans who were already there BUT wasn't integral to the product. Still, you can't deny her star power for however long it lasted.
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05-27-2018, 11:04 AM | #26 |
boop/bop/beep
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Then again though Destor, the Young Bucks are super over and you call them hacks. Vince Russo got Sable over and he's still a fucking hack.
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05-27-2018, 11:13 AM | #27 | |
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05-27-2018, 12:28 PM | #28 |
Resident drug enabler
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05-27-2018, 12:56 PM | #29 |
boop/bop/beep
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lol
I mean Austin was undeniably the bigger star. But in early 1998 they were comparable... at the very least that's why it was strongly considered to pair them together. |
05-27-2018, 01:16 PM | #30 |
Feeling Oof-y
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05-27-2018, 01:57 PM | #31 |
Loque Ja
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Hornswoggle
Because he got all the credit for all my hard work |
05-27-2018, 01:58 PM | #32 | |
TPWW's HHH Mark Since '04
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05-27-2018, 02:10 PM | #33 | |
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05-27-2018, 02:53 PM | #34 | |
I am the cheese
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Dismiss her all you want. She was just as important to the attitude era as anyone. |
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05-27-2018, 04:06 PM | #35 | |
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Pretty much killed the WWE faster than Russo killed off WCW in 2000. Like a bacteria, clinging to the stronger host in hopes of syphoning off valuable nutrients or "rub", in hopes of being over due to association. A mid card at best in the realm of Snitsky in 2004. |
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05-27-2018, 04:25 PM | #36 | |
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05-27-2018, 04:36 PM | #37 |
Loque Ja
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All Sable did for me was make my dad start not letting us watch events live. He would tape them and then let us watch after. Unsure if he ever edited anything out or not.
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05-27-2018, 04:37 PM | #38 | |
Resident drug enabler
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05-27-2018, 04:43 PM | #39 |
Resident drug enabler
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Also, you didn't answer my question in the post you quoted.
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05-28-2018, 12:35 AM | #40 | |
Celestia's Left Hand
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