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Old 10-19-2014, 03:28 PM   #41
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Haha what a surprise Kalyx is a GGer. It attracts robotic sociopathic idiot babies who think they're amazing.

Rockpapershotgun corrupt fucking lol
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:15 PM   #42
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That Five guys video was sexist bullshit.
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:32 PM   #43
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Cries about GG and giving own thread. Watches vid and posts in GG thread.


GG STD.
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:33 PM   #44
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Saw the video awhile ago and forgot to talk about it.
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:39 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poit View Post
Where in the goals of Gamergate are tasks such as flooding research surveys with harassing responses?
It's lovely that you'd cite Jezebel of all of Gawker's sites. Part of Gawker's narrative is absolutely to spin anything and everything into 'GamerGate is evils'. But sure, let's look at this article.

Quote:
My name is Jennifer Allaway. I'm a social researcher whose primary body of work consists of a study I did in 2013 on the prevalence of sexism in the game industry, and how it impacts game content. Since then I've been working on a new study on the importance of diversity in game content to game players, and whether or not the game industry is able to predict this desire

Game developers can be hard to reach for data collection, so a few different organizations have been passing around links to help me collect data for this study. By September 25th, I basically had all the data I needed.
She's going to have to do better than 'a few organizations gave her links'. And as for her email:



Who targeted her project? She's saying it's GG, sure, but I don't recall any calls to target what sounds like a fairly unknown and secretive project of hers. How would any of us know about this, and then organize a disruption - into the "tens of thousands of entries" - and then how did this guy know? Did he catch a call to arms on Twitter? A GG thread? Perhaps a private GG thread that he 'infiltrated'?

You linked to an article from a biased site that itself links to nothing but study that reveals no intimate scale, that was warned from some guy based on whispers in the wind. But let's move on.

Quote:
I went into 8chan—the movement's current and primary forum for coordinating their efforts...
lol no. Any and call call to arms (that are usually email campaigns to advertisers) are almost exclusively done on twitter; publicly and issued by anybody who thinks they have a good idea to contact companies. 8chan did get a rise in users after 4chan started closing GG threads left and right (see my post on Moot's involvement), but it is hardly a base of operations. But let's move on with her sleuthing:

Quote:
...And found a discussion on a "secret developer survey," referring to my questions. It was getting passed around, accumulating criticisms and promises to respond. Within it I found the following comment, which confirmed my suspicions about what "vote brigading" meant.


Quote:
In under four hours, the developer survey jumped from around 700 responses, which had been collected over the course of a month, to over 1100 responses. The responses were not nearly as subtle as the anonymous poster above urged. They ranged in their degree of racism and misogyny, but they all all ridiculed the project with dishonest mockery. It appeared that less than 5 percent of the new responses had actually come from developers.
Sounds pretty bad. This discussion (un-linked, of course) had something against her work and appeared to have struck. But there's no GG connection other than her erroneous belief that 8chan is our base. Her findings end right there. We have nothing but her word that GG organized this from 8chan. The word of a Gawker writer, who writes specifically on Gawker's most liberal social justice blog. Compare her standards of evidence to my big post a page ago when you questioned me about GamerGate.

Quote:
I realized just how much I'd internalized the presumed process: if you're even asking about equality or diversity in games, being shouted down in a traumatizing manner is now a mandatory step that you have to sit back and endure.
And now comes the thesis of the piece. Most anti-GG articles go like this: "I hate GG wanna know why, look what I found, see what I mean, aren't they evil guys, we must stop GG."

Consider that right now their message is about how they tried to have a conversation and got shut down, but out in the open they do everything in their power not to have a public conversation. I mean, what would GG even have to gain shutting down her study? Perhaps the rest of the 8chan thread could light context- OH WAIT.

Quote:
#Gamergate, as we know it now, is a hate group.
They know nothing but what they wanna know. Charities, game jams, calling out bullies, and helping to root out who dox'd and harassed Anita and Brianna - Never happened, we're a hate group. The rest of her article spins the history of our side to align with a study of how hate groups form and operate, which is a-whole-nother debate.

She ends on that note because how do we feel about hate groups? The nazis, KKKs, and Westboro's of the country? We dismiss them. We ignore them if possible. Don't look at them, they're evil. The difference is none of those groups waste time presenting themselves as anything other than what they are.

What, strategically speaking, do we have to gain talking about journalistic integrity and ending gamer shaming but the trying to scare writers out of the office? For what? What tactical mojo did we use to get the women and minorities we apparently hate to side with us? I just linked an interview that featured women on our side. How did we do that? Who do we hate, exactly?

Off the article, let's get back to your post.

Quote:
What is a smear embargo?
It's just me combining article embargos and Silver Media's smear campaign against us. The multiple sites under this PR group released anti-gamer articles inside of two days, much like the lifting of preview embargoes on these same sites.

Quote:
If Gamergate supposedly has such a "positive message", why is it associated with so much harassment, threats, and so forth?
That article you posted? That sort of thing is all the mainstream public knows about GamerGate. We have had next to no representation in media. A few smaller blogs and an interview here and there, but that's versus near daily anti-GG pieces by much better organized and funded companies. We were completely misrepresented on CNN for fuck sake.

Quote:
Why do you not believe Totilo? What did Quinn do that was wrong?
1) I never said I didn't believe him. My last post about him mused about how him seeing nothing wrong with his writer's actions is probably his actual feelings on the matter. He seems like a nice guy with questionable workers.

2) Zoe Quinn:
- Had two affairs that very likely assisted her career and standing with games media.
- Shut down a game jam that aimed to get women to create games.
- Fabricated harassment in attempt to vilify a site called Wizardchan.
- And generally speaking; cheated on her bf five times. Really now?

Quote:
So, wait, I'm confused. There's no confirmation of corruption, but you're going after these sites anyway?
There's a difference between being unethical and flat out corruption. If it was the latter, authorities would be involved (the Fez/Indy awards thing came close).

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Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
Haha what a surprise Kalyx is a GGer. It attracts robotic sociopathic idiot babies who think they're amazing.
This post highlights one of the points I've been speaking of in this thread. I have done nothing but reply questions and tell my perspective this whole thread. And there are no prior clashes between me and Rogerer on this forum. I'll leave it at that.

If anybody has questions or want me to elaborate on past answers I'll do my best.
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:42 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
That Five guys video was sexist bullshit.
How so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
Cries about GG and giving own thread. Watches vid and posts in GG thread.
I don't understand... Are you saying this thread was in response to people crying about GG in VG forums? And is there something all of sudden wrong with posting vids we watched on here?

What are you saying?
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:50 PM   #47
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He used the word cunt.
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:58 PM   #48
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Okay?
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Old 10-19-2014, 08:15 PM   #49
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Just sayin' using that word makes him a sexist. I'm not talking anything he says about a woman seriously.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:15 PM   #50
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That's unfortunate.

But he's not sexist, and if anything he's used his channel and twitter to give women a great platform to speak up. But if his actions and arguments mean nothing to you because of a word, I can't make that horse drink that water.

I can send you other vids of his where he's not talking about a woman since you're willing to take other subject seriously. There are also other vids explaining the 'Five Guys' thing that doesn't use the word cunt.

Just saying there's ways around your aversion to the word, I can work with you.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:29 PM   #51
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Nope, Its not as bad as the N word but it's similar. Not acceptable in any form anywhere ever.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:40 PM   #52
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Okay fine; but would you like other videos or text on the matter that doesn't involve words that offend you?
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:48 PM   #53
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The overt sexism made me shut down about the topic. Go ahead.
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Old 10-19-2014, 10:12 PM   #54
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before I go hunting later; it's the Five Guys thing you wanna know about?
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Old 10-19-2014, 10:24 PM   #55
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Whatever you think is relevant but that seems to be the major part right?
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Old 10-19-2014, 10:33 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
Whatever you think is relevant but that seems to be the major part right?
Not really. The Five Guys thing led to the mysteriously dismissive nature of reddit and game journos. Nobody really cares about Quinn now since the movement solidified on the actions of game journos. She just kinda pops up and makes a baiting tweet these days now.

So moving past that; what would you like to know. We'll start fresh.
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:02 PM   #57
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Just say what do you think you will accomplish as a Gamergate member. What's the end game? Like no more Corporate sponsors in game journalism? Like when Doritos bought IGN the Halo 4 Package for a review?
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:39 PM   #58
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The endgame would be:

- The end of gender bias in games journalism. If one sex scandal is off the ropes because a developer's sex life isn't industry relevant; none of them are. Same with sextape and nude pic leaks (as far as Gawker media goes).

- Disclaimers of any prior relationships between journalist and subject (Kotaku and others have already started this to their credit).

- On a broader, yes, certain paid articles and corporate shilling needs to end or at least downplay.

- Writers need to differentiate between a game review (which should focus on merits of the game), and their own personal of a game's subtext. This is a tricky line, but a lot of us have been bothered with how game articles are written nowadays. Polygon's Bayonetta 2 review said nothing that would help a potential buyer, but it sure was sexist, eh? They can have blog spaces for that conversation. Gaming needs to be about gaming again.

- The end of toxic discourse in the gaming community. GamerGate and Game Journos can together make a huge stand against this age old behavior, we're too busy blaming each other. Nobody, nobody wants to be harassed, threatened or dox'd. Together we need to vilify this behavior. Understandably you can't stop a troll from being a troll, but since we both hate them, we can certainly make their lives hell.

- Integrity, not even of the job specific kind. Some sites have made changes in response to things we called out - like a month later. A lot of people believe that GG wouldn't be nearly as big as it is if they initially identified the issue, apologized where warranted, and went from there. Closing threads, doubling down on hateful articles, bullying other members of your field for taking a neutral stance, and equating people to ISIS is not going to go well. These are things that would crumble any industry or social group outside of gaming.
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Old 10-20-2014, 04:30 AM   #59
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If you had a fucking brain in your nut you'd be able to discern what you read for yourself and let the free market continue as it does.
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Old 10-20-2014, 04:51 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
How so?



I don't understand... Are you saying this thread was in response to people crying about GG in VG forums? And is there something all of sudden wrong with posting vids we watched on here?

What are you saying?
It was to STD - nothing more.

Quote:
Disclaimers of any prior relationships between journalist and subject
Feel like personal life details are not the business of the general public.

Quote:
On a broader, yes, certain paid articles and corporate shilling needs to end or at least downplay
If anyone, GG involved or not, ever believes this will ever happen, then good on them. Truthfully, however, no one will ever know the truth. Even if any companies say they are 100% transparent, this will never go away. It exists in everything in life. That being said, it would be nice to see more people focus this kind of effort on "corruption" in more important venues.
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:17 AM   #61
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Actually, it would be best if people who had a relationship in the past to excuse themselves from doing articles on their exes. They don't need to announce the details of their love lives. They just have to not write articles on people they have slept with or dated.

to Drave: I just wanted it out of News because at this point it's more opinion of what happened than what actually happened. News is news and opinion is opinion.
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Old 10-20-2014, 09:06 AM   #62
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have nothing important to add except to say that I really hope the term "doxxed" does not become a "thing" people start saying
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Old 10-20-2014, 09:18 AM   #63
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I agree and add that I hope "Journos" for journalists isn't a thing.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:37 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
Feel like personal life details are not the business of the general public.
>>>

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
Actually, it would be best if people who had a relationship in the past to excuse themselves from doing articles on their exes. They don't need to announce the details of their love lives. They just have to not write articles on people they have slept with or dated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drave
If anyone, GG involved or not, ever believes this will ever happen, then good on them. Truthfully, however, no one will ever know the truth. Even if any companies say they are 100% transparent, this will never go away. It exists in everything in life. That being said, it would be nice to see more people focus this kind of effort on "corruption" in more important venues.
Agreed. This could be seen as an experiment of sorts. This kind of focused energy targeted at big corporations and politics would be very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
have nothing important to add except to say that I really hope the term "doxxed" does not become a "thing" people start saying
Way too late for that, I'm afraid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
I agree and add that I hope "Journos" for journalists isn't a thing.
I think that's more to do with working around Twitter's character limit (although I used the shorthand a few times in my blog). Just silly things that stick.
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Old 10-20-2014, 11:01 PM   #65
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what does Doxxed mean? Is that like "M.O.M. and P.O.P."?
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Old 10-20-2014, 11:21 PM   #66
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Having you 'documents' dropped online. Just having your identity and/or address leaked.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:07 AM   #67
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Does this woman deserve the death threats? The one that spawned this shit? Who smells the Apple Pie upon entering a house? That's what I want to know. That's what we're here for.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:23 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
Does this woman deserve the death threats?
Of course not.

Quote:
The one that spawned this shit?
We don't condone threatening Quinn. Actually we really wanna ignore her.

Quote:
Who smells the Apple Pie upon entering a house?
Who cooked it?

Quote:
That's what I want to know. That's what we're here for.
Only @ 7.
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:42 AM   #69
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Is that We gamergate or We the triangle man that lives in your head?
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:01 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Having you 'documents' dropped online. Just having your identity and/or address leaked.
Just having your identity leaked - NOTHING TO SEE HERE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Of course not.We don't condone threatening Quinn. Actually we really wanna ignore her.
Then do so.
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:33 AM   #71
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I want to ignore that body I buried behind the biscuit factory
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:58 AM   #72
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I want to ignore that body I buried behind the biscuit factory
can i borrow a feeling/can i borrow a jar of love.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:51 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
Just having your identity leaked - NOTHING TO SEE HERE!
You serious with this? Like... you're fine posting your first and last and address right here? Maybe you don't care but a lot of people do.

Quote:
Then do so.
We do for the most part. She winds up trending when people catch her latest tweet. Eh.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:12 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
You serious with this? Like... you're fine posting your first and last and address right here? Maybe you don't care but a lot of people do.
Don't be so damn ignorant. It was sarcasm to the effect of the nonchalant way you expressed it in your post:

Quote:
Just having your identity and/or address leaked.
Perhaps I misinterpret the usage, but generally justifying a statement with "just" leading it implies that things could be worse.

Like it or not, GG as a whole has been represented as the responsible parties for disseminating said information.

Quote:
We do for the most part. She winds up trending when people catch her latest tweet. Eh.
So you want to ignore her, for the most part. Right.

As a gamer, the entire situation disgusts me. There will be, always has been and always will be paid-opinion articles so long as we live in a world driven by profit. The only thing the entire situation has garnered is a series of nasty smear campaigns on BOTH sides, catching those who aren't even involved in the crosshairs as well.

Last edited by drave; 10-21-2014 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Fucking work
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:15 PM   #75
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Opinion articles are fine.

And yeah, I didn't mean to make doxing seem like a non-issue.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:26 PM   #76
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Is the GG community going after Youtubers who have been ousted as being paid to do reviews too?
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:07 PM   #77
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We don't have issues with that, specifically.

Personally, I don't mind paid reviews. They're easy to spot and to some degree companies are at fault for making that kind of environment (though the reviewers could refuse).
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:16 PM   #78
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Just feels/appears to be a cause full of inconsistencies.

I guess I feel there are much more major issues to deal with in the gaming world, if that truly is what GG is all about. Instead, lets focus on the personal lives of certain people here and there. Targeting companies that advertise on specific websites rather than targeting the companies themselves seems like a significant misfire.

GG is just as SJW as the other end of the spectrum, simply in their own light.
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Old 10-21-2014, 03:06 PM   #79
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I don't think so but I can say we tried to get at the companies. Their dismissive attitude is what led to this scale. Writers don't address this, get at their editor. He dismisses it, get at parent company. Company seems slow to react, holla at their ad revenue. That tends to be the steps.
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Old 10-21-2014, 03:23 PM   #80
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I still don't understand why any of this is important to anyone anywhere.
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