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Old 11-01-2017, 07:22 PM   #121
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If they were going 9 minutes the smart thing to do to start the match would have been to have Emma attack her before the bell and a couple of spots outside the ring. Once they got in the ring and the match started Emma could have gotten in some of her offense before Asuka hulked up beat the shit out of her. I didn't watch the match but seen the match on Raw which seems to have been the same match.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:43 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
They tested it with pictures. On her debut of the gimmick Emma said she would not be doing it anymore.
Nah, they got her to do a promo in the gimmick or something and everyone shuddered and moved on. It was her big chance for a push she couldn't pull it off.

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Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
Emmalina's gimmick was little more than "she's really hot" and not much else. That worked for Eva Marie because it provided a workaround for her genuine lack of wrestling ability. The gimmick boiled down to "terrible wrestler getting pushed because she's hot" and she was generating heat. She was the best heel in the company for a time because of that gimmick.

Emmalina couldn't have worked because we already saw her as Emma, know she can wrestle, and have seen her put on decent matches. The gimmick was doomed from that respect. It worked with Eva because we'd never seen her be a good in-ring performer previously.
I don't think that was supposed to be the gimmick. I think the idea was more that she was a throwback to the Sunny days, and this would rub the "progressive" women the wrong way. It was a Diva gimmick, but it wasn't supposed to be a non-wrestling one.

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Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
She doesn't seem like the type that aspires to be a "solid low tier hand".
Good for her. That's all they had though.

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Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
Asuka really didn't suffer from that match at all. The people that already know her love her, but they really could have given her a more special debut if they REALLY meant it.

Vince probably hate Asuka, the more I think about it.
Vince must hate Asuka so much that this was the straw that broke the camel's back and Asuka got a squash the next week. Yep. Vince hates Asuka.

And yes, Asuka did suffer. She went into those matches super-over, she came out with the fans less interested in her act. That is the exact opposite of what pro-wrestling is supposed to achieve.

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Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
I guess I just prefer the NJPW method where youhave workers who are definitely booked stronger, but everyone is booked strong enough where there is always an "any given sunday" approach with undercard wrestlers. As a result, the division as a whole is stronger.

Squashes should be for local enhancement talent, not someone like Emma. And having watched the match again, I still stand by my claim that Asuka looked stronger. She's never been about squashes in the first place. Everyone gets their shit in when they face her. What makes her dominant is that she always wins regardless, and HER shit looks a lot mor brutal. I thought Emma did a good job selling that. Every shot she took looked like it killed her.
But they did that match and it didn't work. The crowd could give two shits. Maybe that does work in New Japan, but when Emma and Asuka did it, Asuka went under. "This should work, that should work," it didn't. They did it that way and it didn't. It's really that simple.

As far as the booking goes, you could argue that Emma should be booked stronger if they are going to get her to go out there and do that match, but how? Who do you put her over? Bayley? Then people will complain that Bayley isn't booked strong enough. Sasha Banks? Yeah, see how well that sits with people. This a problem with women's wrestling in the WWE.

That being said, it's not impossible for talent to be competitive despite a shitty win-loss record. A good worker can do this. They can put shine on the babyface and actually get a crowd into that shit. If it calls for them to show a lot more ass than Emma did, so be it, but they can also do it by giving a lot less. The truth is that Emma is just not that good at her job. If she were a good worker, then people would have bought the work. They gave her two consecutive chances and she blew both of them.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:53 PM   #123
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Behind this conversation is an argument about how modern matches are constructed. Every match has to be the same. Everybody needs to get their shit in. If you're the antagonist, you beat up the protagonist for a majority of the match, regardless of whether they are twice your size or half it. If you're in a match longer than 10 minutes, you've got to kick out of each other's finishing moves.

The approach to every match being almost identical is a big part of why wrestling is cold, in my opinion. No one thinks "Hey, how can we actually get this shit over?" Everyone just does the same "good match." If every match is a "good match," then how is any match going to stand out?
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:01 PM   #124
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In Emma's defense: She's far from the only or worse offender with this. But god is the in-ring fucking boring right now. Go and watch wrestling from before all this artistic combat nonsense. Sure, the matches weren't as long and they weren't as "good," but they contrasted well against the stuff that was good, they seemed organic, and real talent stood out. Shows were more lively and had a sense of urgency. You could buy a finish coming out of nowhere, because sometimes they would.

Fignuts and AT were talking about anyone being able to beat anyone on any given night. Well, they do in WWE at the moment. That's what the 50/50 booking gripes are about. But it also meant something because in addition to those wins, there would be a story behind them. Someone would dominate, or someone would be dominated, and each match could tell a different story. Some were worse, but some were better.

Now EVERY match, except for ones that Braun Strowman is in (funny that he's the most over full-time guy they've got), is the fucking same. The story is the same. The inference from fans in the same. How many times can you hear the same story before you are sick of it?
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:12 PM   #125
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Nah, they got her to do a promo in the gimmick or something and everyone shuddered and moved on. It was her big chance for a push she couldn't pull it off.



I don't think that was supposed to be the gimmick. I think the idea was more that she was a throwback to the Sunny days, and this would rub the "progressive" women the wrong way. It was a Diva gimmick, but it wasn't supposed to be a non-wrestling one.



Good for her. That's all they had though.



Vince must hate Asuka so much that this was the straw that broke the camel's back and Asuka got a squash the next week. Yep. Vince hates Asuka.

And yes, Asuka did suffer. She went into those matches super-over, she came out with the fans less interested in her act. That is the exact opposite of what pro-wrestling is supposed to achieve.



But they did that match and it didn't work. The crowd could give two shits. Maybe that does work in New Japan, but when Emma and Asuka did it, Asuka went under. "This should work, that should work," it didn't. They did it that way and it didn't. It's really that simple.

As far as the booking goes, you could argue that Emma should be booked stronger if they are going to get her to go out there and do that match, but how? Who do you put her over? Bayley? Then people will complain that Bayley isn't booked strong enough. Sasha Banks? Yeah, see how well that sits with people. This a problem with women's wrestling in the WWE.

That being said, it's not impossible for talent to be competitive despite a shitty win-loss record. A good worker can do this. They can put shine on the babyface and actually get a crowd into that shit. If it calls for them to show a lot more ass than Emma did, so be it, but they can also do it by giving a lot less. The truth is that Emma is just not that good at her job. If she were a good worker, then people would have bought the work. They gave her two consecutive chances and she blew both of them.
Dude, during her fucking promo she said she was done being Emmalina. During her one and only promo . It was over before..... nevermind. You obviously have no idea nor care.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:20 PM   #126
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Dude, during her fucking promo she said she was done being Emmalina. During her one and only promo . It was over before..... nevermind. You obviously have no idea nor care.
https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/20...-character-wwe

I wasn't talking about a promo in front of the crowd. I'm talking about why they had her cut that promo in front of the crowd. Why do you think she went out there and said she was done being Emmalina?
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:30 PM   #127
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So they thought she was not committed enough which also means she never received a chance to play the character. WWW did not let her go out there to see if the crowd wanted it or not.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:34 PM   #128
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Emma is not worth 4 pages
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:34 PM   #129
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Agree with Ruien, Emmalina wasn't given a chance. In the least they could have let her do it and develop the character from there if it didn't go well. Letting her try and fail would have thought her more than what actually happened.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:13 PM   #130
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Quote:
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So they thought she was not committed enough which also means she never received a chance to play the character. WWW did not let her go out there to see if the crowd wanted it or not.
Yes, she did. She got a chance to play the character in front of the people screen-testing her and they said "nope." You can't give Academy Awards to people who fail to get roles because they blow the audition. This is just dumb.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:14 PM   #131
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Agree with Ruien, Emmalina wasn't given a chance. In the least they could have let her do it and develop the character from there if it didn't go well. Letting her try and fail would have thought her more than what actually happened.
Yes she was. She was given a chance to give Vince ideas and get a massive push. She couldn't do that. Pfft, next.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:21 PM   #132
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In regards to who is at fault for Asuka's first two matches, its either the agent or whoever booked it for Emma to have that much offense against someone being hyped up as a dominate force in the WWE. Them having Asuka's 3rd match be a squash should have been a hint the WWE realized they messed up Asuka's aura right off the bat.


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Emma is not worth 4 pages
Agree. She's at least worth 5 pages minimum, 6 with the EVIL persona.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:25 PM   #133
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"Whoever booked emma to have that much offense" haha
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:26 PM   #134
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If i didnt know any better id think you guys think its just a game of simon says
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:31 PM   #135
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Yes, she did. She got a chance to play the character in front of the people screen-testing her and they said "nope." You can't give Academy Awards to people who fail to get roles because they blow the audition. This is just dumb.
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Yes she was. She was given a chance to give Vince ideas and get a massive push. She couldn't do that. Pfft, next.
It's funny that this is coming from you. You, who is the biggest critic on Vince and creative to take them at their word someone does not have the talent to pull off a character.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:35 PM   #136
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That's because it is common sense in this scenario. They wanted Emmalina to work -- that's why they did all those vignettes. If you want me to bash WWE in this, I have no clue why they didn't test her before airing all these videos. But if they had struck gold with it, they would have put her on TV instead of Chazzing that shit.

And I've heard Emma promo. It's not good.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:39 PM   #137
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Sports Illustrated is reporting that Emma was released because she had "enemies" on the creative team. It might have something to do with her not being able to portray the characters they want her to portray. The same article states that the door is open for her to return down the line, but many consider her departure an "addition by subtraction." I think what that means is that by her not being there, it's one less person to work into plans, book around, cater to, etc. And it opens up a new spot for someone a bit more flexible to come in.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:52 PM   #138
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Probably them still being very resentful the Emmalina thing didn't work and her being vocal at times on Twitter about her lack of use for RAW.

They tried an Emmalina-like idea with Lana but even that didn't work or last long. Like BrotherVito mentioned, Eva Marie was probably the only one would could actually pull off what the WWE wanted for the gimmick although she'd eventually run into the same problems as Lana afterwards.
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Old 11-02-2017, 01:01 AM   #139
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I heard she got fired for being a jerk on Twitter.
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Old 11-02-2017, 01:02 AM   #140
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Emma is not worth 4 pages
Fear not, we'll go more.
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Old 11-02-2017, 01:10 AM   #141
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I heard she got fired for being a jerk on Twitter.
There are mixed reports on how she conducted herself backstage. Some say she's lovely, and that was speculated as to how she got her job back in the first place. Others say that she was hard to deal with.
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Old 11-02-2017, 01:41 AM   #142
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Wait... wasn't the Emmalina change just a mirage? I thought I remember it being something that was suppose to happen, then it couldn't because she was injured for too long, so they just played it out as a big joke because creative had no real storyline for it. It seems to me that you guys are saying that the whole stretch was a planned failure.

I do remember feeling that the TLC match was going on way longer than it should have as I watched it, but as was mentioned above, if they Goldberg'd Asuka, she would have zero longevity on a very thin roster. I can't believe that Emma being fired is solely on the match. My reaction is more feeling that Emma has been around a decent amount of time, but has not been able to "grab the brass ring" with the audience so she became expendable. I hate to see her go, but it is was it is.
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Old 11-02-2017, 07:48 AM   #143
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There are mixed reports on how she conducted herself backstage. Some say she's lovely, and that was speculated as to how she got her job back in the first place. Others say that she was hard to deal with.
Not the Asuka matches though.
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Old 11-02-2017, 07:57 AM   #144
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I almost forgot that she was released for a hot second back in 2014 for shoplifting an iPad accessory from Walmart.
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:00 AM   #145
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I would rather they book Asuka as strong, but vulnerable, because I am 100% certain that if they wrote her as goldberg style dominant, they would write themselves into a corner and the end result would hurt her in the long run even more than people think this match with emma did.
Protect her and present her as a special attraction. The women's division on RAW is already overflowing with capable performers.
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:26 AM   #146
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And Asuka can be vulnerable but not in a way where she is giving the jtts of the division most of the match. The njpw comparison doesnt even hold weight because they work different style matches almost every night. Emma and Asuka worked a decent match but it was a standard wwe women's match and the crowd did not give a shit.
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:35 AM   #147
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Not sure if it is the mainstream audience or the change in the performer's in-ring style once they're promoted to the main roster.

Remember Sami Zayn (on the E&C Pod) stating that the NXT fans feel compelled and responsible for the talent but once they move to the main roster, it is a completely different scenario where the audience may or may not be familiar with their body of work.
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:43 AM   #148
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I guess that can be attested to Emma's first failed stint on the main roster.

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Old 11-02-2017, 09:06 AM   #149
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They are also presented as something valuable in NXT and not treated like a bunch of pussies.
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:25 AM   #150
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Remember feeling emotional when Bayley defeated Sasha for the NXT Women's title at TakeOver Brooklyn. So much wasted potential.
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:57 AM   #151
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I think they are building Asuka up to be fed to Roman Reigns.
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:10 AM   #152
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Goddammit Savior don't give Vince any ideas
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Old 11-02-2017, 05:44 PM   #153
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Not sure if it is the mainstream audience or the change in the performer's in-ring style once they're promoted to the main roster.

Remember Sami Zayn (on the E&C Pod) stating that the NXT fans feel compelled and responsible for the talent but once they move to the main roster, it is a completely different scenario where the audience may or may not be familiar with their body of work.
I'd argue its because WWE does a very poor job bridging NXT with the main roster. NXT gets a lot more freedom to try out stuff but it only carries over if Vince/Creative care. Most of the time its ignored and Creative does a poor job giving fans reasons to care or see why those NXT stars are meant to be special.

Gets worse when considering the stories and rumors about the backstage bickering going on between Triple H's side and Vince/Dunn's side over the direction for callups.
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Old 11-02-2017, 06:49 PM   #154
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Yeah, lets be clear about something. NXT is a wrestling show, booked with wrestling fans in mind. Raw and Smackdown are segments of a global multimedia empire booked with their investors and sponsors in mind.
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:23 PM   #155
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The pro-wrestling/sports entertainment dynamic is certainly true, but that fucking Full Sail crowd doesn't help matters, because they will get behind almost anything ironically, and that creates the illusion that these gimmicks are over and that they can work to people who have relatively clean necks.
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:28 PM   #156
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I stopped watching NXT because of Full Sail. Only watch the Takeovers now. Sucks, because the booking is good enough for me to get behind, but I just can't stand that audience anymore. They've grown to be so obnoxious.
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:36 PM   #157
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Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Noid is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
The booking is fairly solid. It can be spotty sometimes, but it's generally logical, which I like.
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Old 11-09-2017, 12:27 PM   #158
Heyman
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Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Heyman is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
I always thought Emma was decent.
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:41 PM   #159
SlickyTrickyDamon
Quark is Less Impressed.
 
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SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
I hope she re-starts her youtube cooking show
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:42 PM   #160
SlickyTrickyDamon
Quark is Less Impressed.
 
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SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Dave View Post
Remember feeling emotional when Bayley defeated Sasha for the NXT Women's title at TakeOver Brooklyn. So much wasted potential.
They both were in the women's title match at WrestleMania and Sasha's was the 2nd time.
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