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Old 04-18-2017, 04:01 PM   #1
Rollermacka
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Why do you think it hasn't been more successful?



It's pretty obvious but
SPOILER: show
Gunner and Crimson are returning with a Military themed gimmick


When you think about it, outside of Sgt. Slaughter..... there haven't really been that many successful military themed gimmicks in mainstream wrestling. There have been plenty of veterans who have found success in professional wrestling, but other than Slaughter, I can't really think of a main event guy who had a military themed gimmick (I'm gonna exclude Marine Cena because that was to promote the movie)

So my question is, why do you think most military themed gimmicks fall flat? Shouldn't it make a face's job 10X easier because you already are something that the crowd can relate to?




FEELS LIKE I'M WEARING NOTHING AT ALL

NOTHING AT ALL

NOTHING AT ALL
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:05 PM   #2
Big Vic
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Wasn't Slaughter Hogan one of the worst drawing WMs too?
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:06 PM   #3
Destor
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In 1984, the year Hogan won the title for the 1st time, Slaughter and Hogan headlined seperated tours. Slaughter was the bigger draw.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:15 PM   #4
XL
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What are our options here?

Corporal Kirchner, Ranger Ross, Buddy Lee Parker, Sgt. Craig Pittman, Jesse Neal?

I think there's a reason outside of the military gimmick why these guys weren't successful.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:15 PM   #5
XL
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Misfits In Action were great though.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:31 PM   #6
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Truth Commission or is this just US themed militia gimmicks?
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:32 PM   #7
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People have had enough about war on the news since 2001. Entertainment is an escape from all of the ills of the world.

Also people know Cena was not a vet. Him playing soldier boy hurt the image. Slaughter was legit or at least looked legit.
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:29 PM   #8
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Looks alright. Impact could use the tag teams as well. One could argue that The Shield had a modern militaristic theme to it and they were pretty successful so something like that could work.
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
In 1984, the year Hogan won the title for the 1st time, Slaughter and Hogan headlined seperated tours. Slaughter was the bigger draw.
What about after he was saddled with a couple of cronies?
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollermacka View Post


It's pretty obvious but
SPOILER: show
Gunner and Crimson are returning with a Military themed gimmick


When you think about it, outside of Sgt. Slaughter..... there haven't really been that many successful military themed gimmicks in mainstream wrestling. There have been plenty of veterans who have found success in professional wrestling, but other than Slaughter, I can't really think of a main event guy who had a military themed gimmick (I'm gonna exclude Marine Cena because that was to promote the movie)

So my question is, why do you think most military themed gimmicks fall flat? Shouldn't it make a face's job 10X easier because you already are something that the crowd can relate to?
Holy cow when i saw IMPACT on the video, it was too much for me to possibly think of and my mind nearly exploded. Good luck with this thread.
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
What about after he was saddled with a couple of cronies?
You meam after it was no longer a patriot gimmick?
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:58 PM   #12
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How about Rambo Greg Gagne lol
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:01 PM   #13
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Probably for similar reasons why most anti-American and Patriotic gimmicks don't work or have short shelf life. Its an over-used gimmick and just keep having the same storylines rehashed over and over again.

Probably also because most with the gimmick are not talented enough to carry the gimmick into something big or meaningful for the long run.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:12 PM   #14
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too many liberals compared to the olden days....
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
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You meam after it was no longer a patriot gimmick?
Patriotism isn't a solely American property. They were Patriots. Iraqi Patriots.
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:41 PM   #16
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Also ewww seeing George W. Bush on tv again. Ewww.
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:42 PM   #17
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Unless Paul Titan is a member of this group I don't care for it.

This reeks of Bruce and Dutch behind the times booking
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
Misfits In Action were great though.
Oddly enough, the first thing I think of is the story of Riggs legit getting hot about being "Pvt. Stash" and gave himself a promotion to "Major Stash" like it really mattered.

The second thing I think about is Gen. Hugh G. Rection... specifically a classic Steiner promo: "I was in the ring with some goof who calls himself Hugh G. Rection! (which of course was beeped out) So after I kicked his ass, I went to the hotel with my freaks, and found myself with one!" ... and after that promo, I think someone in a suit finally noticed the pun, and he was never referred to by "full name" again. It was General Rection until the death of the gimmick.

Third is the fact that I feel Lash Leroux was someone who should have been a bigger star than he ever was in WCW.

And finally, Chavo's hurricanrana countered into the single leg crab which allowed Lance Storm to pull off the title hat trick.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:17 AM   #19
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I think that the Armed Forces gimmick just comes off very one dimensional. I really like Gunner and I think Crimson is okay too. These guys really should have been signed to NXT. I truly cringe at every clip I see from Impact but I will yet again view something of these guys when they have a match.

Sgt. Slaughter wasn't over because he was a patriot but because of GI Joe. Everyone else was just a guy who wore his old work outfit to his new job.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:19 AM   #20
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I think a heel Vet gimmick would get over in a very intense way. Let him be pushed ala Kurt Angle, fans don't buy it, it's too forced. He eventually snaps on the fans and becomes a psycho former Armed Forces member submission machine who doesn't take crap from anybody.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:43 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragile X View Post
I think that the Armed Forces gimmick just comes off very one dimensional. I really like Gunner and I think Crimson is okay too. These guys really should have been signed to NXT. I truly cringe at every clip I see from Impact but I will yet again view something of these guys when they have a match.

Sgt. Slaughter wasn't over because he was a patriot but because of GI Joe. Everyone else was just a guy who wore his old work outfit to his new job.
Slaughter was over before GI Joe
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:47 AM   #22
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The real issue is the same as most gimmicks (and in the case of WWE, complete nationalities)... being an army vet can't be the gimmick in and of itself unless there is a very, very, VERY unique talent at the helm. If the wrestler is a well-known flag waving, pension collecting vet, and can't be seen any other way like so much R. Lee Ermey, that is a rare and special thing. One of the reasons Slaughter worked so well was a living cartoon of what everyone believed a drill instructor was. There was life to what he was doing besides the superficial. He carried himself with the so-called command presence, looked tough, he acted tough, he talked tough! He had the whistle, he carried the riding crop, he gave "orders" in a loud, gruff, surly voice.

Just rocking camo and hoping for "USA!" chants rings pretty hollow. If the only intent is to come up against a particular dirty foreign heel, and that's as far as the gimmick is thought through, it's doomed to fail... and most of the time, that's exactly what happens. Being fair, it's exactly the same for that foreign heel if the sole expression of him is simply being that foreign heel :glares as Rusev: Meanwhile, one of the *best* foreign heels was Lance Storm in WCW. The entirety of his character was that he was better than any American he faced. He won titles "with relative ease". He bragged and backed it up. He ran down anyone who wasn't Canadian (but even some of them), because Canada produces superior wrestlers. He was such a patriot of his homeland, his national anthem would start to play before EVERY ONE OF HIS MATCHES (which would invariably be interrupted unless the show were in Canada- even WCW wasn't dumb enough to cause that kind of riot). When he got to WWE, all this depth and nuance and deadpan swagger was distilled down to "USA sucks" and he was just another generic foreign heel.

But I've strayed.

The deal is, handling this is like what I said about TJ Perkins' gimmick (pre heel turn). You have people on the roster- Xavier Woods in particular - who actually LIVE that life, but TJ seems like a corporate idea of "what kids today like"... its why New Day was so successful and Perkins seemed forced. Which itself is kind of ironic, because New Day had started out with all that forced positivity played straight, and it wasn't fucking working. It wasn't until they started being able to roll with the heel turn - to become increasingly disingenuous - that they started getting over because this started to give them depth. Now it has come full circle with added lore of cereal, unicorns, a trombone, and ice cream.

Jingoism is apparently viewed as an evergreen thing, but there still has to be something besides throwing on a uniform to make people give a shit. And it comes again with these two guys: if it is just going to be JB talking incessantly about their background every match in the same way Tenay would hit the same beats about Jessie Neal, this too is doomed from the start.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:07 AM   #23
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Slaughter was also one of the bigger heels of the past 5 years in the company. That, combined with the Grand Wizard passing and the rise of the Iron Sheik created a perfect storm for Slaughter
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Patriotism isn't a solely American property. They were Patriots. Iraqi Patriots.
Pretty sure Rolla was specifically talking about American patriots in this thread tho
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:44 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
In 1984, the year Hogan won the title for the 1st time, Slaughter and Hogan headlined seperated tours. Slaughter was the bigger draw.
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Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
What about after he was saddled with a couple of cronies?
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Originally Posted by Destor View Post
You meam after it was no longer a patriot gimmick?
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Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
Patriotism isn't a solely American property. They were Patriots. Iraqi Patriots.
Why do you think Iraqi patriots would outdraw Hogan in the US?
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:00 PM   #26
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I didn't say anything about draw. Slaughter was always a Patriot.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:04 PM   #27
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:13 PM   #28
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STD, pertinent as usual. :-|
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
Slaughter was over before GI Joe
Yeah, there was a reason why GI Joe wanted him.

Fun Fact: After seeing the success/renewed interest that Sgt Slaughter brought to GI Joe, they started to think about what other "outside character" they could bring in. A deal was struck to bring Rocky Balboa into the GI Joe universe. He was listed as a member in one issue of Marvel's GI Joe comic book with a bio and some art of him. The deal fell through, and the very next month Marvel printed a retraction saying "Rocky Balboa was incorrectly listed as a member of the GI Joe. He has never been a member or affiliated in any way."
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:30 PM   #30
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Also, "lol" @ STD in this thread
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:40 PM   #31
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It's obvious STD hates America. Shame on him.
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
I didn't say anything about draw. Slaughter was always a Patriot.
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Pretty sure Rolla was specifically talking about American patriots in this thread tho
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
Yeah, there was a reason why GI Joe wanted him.

Fun Fact: After seeing the success/renewed interest that Sgt Slaughter brought to GI Joe, they started to think about what other "outside character" they could bring in. A deal was struck to bring Rocky Balboa into the GI Joe universe. He was listed as a member in one issue of Marvel's GI Joe comic book with a bio and some art of him. The deal fell through, and the very next month Marvel printed a retraction saying "Rocky Balboa was incorrectly listed as a member of the GI Joe. He has never been a member or affiliated in any way."
Slaughter first appeared in 85, which was after his second WWF run had already ended. I heard that about Rocky. Pretty crazy
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Old 04-20-2017, 01:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
Yeah, there was a reason why GI Joe wanted him.

Fun Fact: After seeing the success/renewed interest that Sgt Slaughter brought to GI Joe, they started to think about what other "outside character" they could bring in. A deal was struck to bring Rocky Balboa into the GI Joe universe. He was listed as a member in one issue of Marvel's GI Joe comic book with a bio and some art of him. The deal fell through, and the very next month Marvel printed a retraction saying "Rocky Balboa was incorrectly listed as a member of the GI Joe. He has never been a member or affiliated in any way."
Jaw you're a veteran who also wrestles, have you ever used a "military themed" gimmick for any period of time? If so why or why not?
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:37 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
Slaughter first appeared in 85, which was after his second WWF run had already ended. I heard that about Rocky. Pretty crazy
But, hey... William "The Refrigerator" Perry DID become part of the GI Joe roster!
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:03 PM   #36
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:32 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollermacka View Post
Jaw you're a veteran who also wrestles, have you ever used a "military themed" gimmick for any period of time? If so why or why not?
An interesting question, and one that I have weighed the pros and cons for in the past.

On the "pro" side, it is a way to instantly connect with the fans. Its quick and easy, and you're guaranteed to get them behind you. If you are just working a one time show here and there, it is great.

On the "con" side, it is almost "too easy". It is hard to "add dimension" to your character. To give the fans a reason to really connect with you beyond patriotism. I mean like they are cheering you because they actually like you, and care about you.... not just because you like the country they live in.

So for a one time thing where you aren't really going to get a chance to connect with the fans, I'd say go for the military gimmick. If you're actually going to be long term somewhere, you can have some elements of it, but don't make it your main character trait. Try to get the fans to connect with you as a human being and not as a part of a "larger entity"..... It may have been "enough" in "simpler times", but I feel nowadays a character needs "more than that" if it is going to be "long term".

Anyways.....

To answer your question, and after weighing the pros and cons, I made the conscious decision to never go with a military themed gimmick for two main reasons. I'm not a wrestler, or a veteran.
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:38 PM   #38
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:59 PM   #39
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I like mega-face tag teams and they're few and far between nowadays. The gimmick is easy but it's potentially main event caliber if done right. That being said, I wonder how long it took them to come up with that name.
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