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Old 08-09-2017, 09:15 AM   #201
Noid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
There is in no way, shape, or for a way you can say what Mick did was "shitty" to anyone. There are definitive arguments that it was most certainly lame, because of the nature of the spot. But at this stage of his life Mick Foley can do what he wants. In fact, Mick Foley has given his body to the business enough that the likes of Cornette and yourself should probably just shut the fuck up and let him do wtf he wants.
That's actually a fair point, and I actually think Cornette will take the same line. He'll likely just be disappointed at the lameness. I don't even agree, I was just bringing it up as a talking point. If you go back to my initial post, you can see that I wasn't committed to the idea. It was just something I was interested to hear people's thoughts on.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:15 AM   #202
Noid
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Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Either way it's no worse than his recent half hearted run as RAW GM.
Ha, I won't argue that point much at all. Well, I might put them on par.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:06 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
People don't think of wrestling as a television show like any other. They just don't. That's why they are so butt-hurt about it being fake.
I don't agree with this. From what I've seen watching wrestling has become somewhat normalized because everyone's worked out that it's really not that different from any other show. If anything, I think the success of The Rock and Batista in the film industry has opened some eyes to the fact that it's a legitimate platform for people to perform in and potentially brand into other areas of the entertainment realm. If Cena's movie career takes off, and he's a charismatic enough guy that I think it will, that will only strengthen the position. Wrestling isn't stigmatized by the mainstream anymore.

Even my dad, who spent years upon years asking "when are you going to grow out of that stupid wrestling stuff?" stopped asking because he's finally realized it's just like having a devotion to any other TV show. Hell I've even shown him a few things when in years past he'd have never given it a chance. I showed him some serious, some funny, some just plain wacky. You know what stuff captured his interest most? Lucha Underground and The Final Deletion.

None of my friends who gave up on wrestling in the early 2000s give me any sort of shit about still watching. If anything, they've given me props and seem genuinely interested when I tell them about some of the stuff I've seen.

Also,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
Also, why do you give a fuck what people see you watching? Anyone who judges you based on what television you watch is a faggot and not worth worrying about anyway. Check your insecurities bruh
This is precisely what I'd tell any wrestling fan worried that they're going to be viewed as uncool for watching it. It's not stigmatized anymore and anyone who thinks it is is probably a tryhard alpha male cunt anyway.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:34 PM   #204
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It's definitely still stigmatized for a lot of people. Maybe not for being fake but for being a retarded form of entertainment for stupid, easily entertained people. I don't think The Rock was enough to shake that stigma for the rest of time. If they watched an episode of Raw it would probably just strengthen that point. I guess the dick spot would be better in some ways because at least it clearly isn't trying like WWE is.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:37 PM   #205
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The dick spot is better than 70 per cent of raw cuz at least its over. Not saying much but its tru. Its damn tru.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:45 PM   #206
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Why would anyone actually care if Cornette isn't going to like them doing a spot? Why would Mick Foley or Cody Rhodes or Ciampa or Jushin Thunder Liger ever realistically sit there and think "I'd better not do that, Cornette wont like it"? He's not important.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:51 PM   #207
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Well of all the people who state their opinions of stuff in wrestling that they find to be shitty online, he seems to be the one who gets the most attention. He must be doing something right.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:31 PM   #208
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appealing to people who still wish it was 1983?
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:47 PM   #209
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Wrestling is def still stigmatized and saying any different is just crazy
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:57 PM   #210
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It is still stigmatized. And I still don't give a fuck.

Haters gonna hate. Do you.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:01 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveWadding View Post
appealing to people who still wish it was 1983?
Most of his gripes with wrestling revolve around a lack of logic. If logic is a 1983 trait specifically, we're at a pretty sad point.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:03 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
It is still stigmatized. And I still don't give a fuck.

Haters gonna hate. Do you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Most of his gripes with wrestling revolve around a lack of logic. If logic is a 1983 trait specifically, we're at a pretty sad point.
Agreed x2
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:27 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra Mantis View Post
Why would anyone actually care if Cornette isn't going to like them doing a spot? Why would Mick Foley or Cody Rhodes or Ciampa or Jushin Thunder Liger ever realistically sit there and think "I'd better not do that, Cornette wont like it"? He's not important.
Cornette helped Foley out tremendously in WCW, and the two worked together quite closely in the WWF. You don't like him, but that's got nothing to do with the relationships he has fostered in professional wrestling over his career.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:28 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Most of his gripes with wrestling revolve around a lack of logic. If logic is a 1983 trait specifically, we're at a pretty sad point.
This. Of all the straw-man lobbed Cornette's way, this is the most basic and inane. He's often called an old man yelling at clouds, but he's more like Frank Grimes pointing out how insane Springfield is. To the people who throw that regurgitated complaint at Cornette, I always just think "You think he's out of touch, but you can't even read what he's actually saying? Who is really the one not keeping up here?"
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:29 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Wrestling is def still stigmatized and saying any different is just crazy
Yeah, I'm glad other people have jumped in and said this, so it doesn't look like I simply dismissing Vito out of contrarianism.
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:04 AM   #216
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Cornette is the most successful podcaster IMO. Numbers aside. He's managed to keep himself relevant in wrestling because of it.
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:05 AM   #217
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But a lot of the time he's wrong. Particularly when it comes to anything Kenny Omega does lol
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:18 AM   #218
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Sorry but I'm still not seeing where this massive stigmatization of wrestling is in 2017. I'm really not. There used to be a time in post-Attitude Era where the slightest mention of wrestling in school got most of the room to stick their noses up and act like wrestling was for little kids. And that was well before the WWE product became PG.

In adulthood, most people who aren't wankers don't give a shit about what other people watch. When you see an ad for a movie you think looks bad - is your first thought "I'll pass on that one" or do you think "Who in their right mind would see that?" If it's the latter, you're probably an asshole.

If anybody did give you shit for watching, Fignuts' "who gives a fuck" approach is the right one. Watching something and acting like you're supposed to be ashamed for liking it is a hell of a lot more off-putting to me than watching something and just saying "yeah, I like this. So what?"

But I've not seen anybody give someone else shit for liking wrestling in a long time. Hell I've seen wrestling fans give other wrestling fans shit for liking comedy wrestling or whatever a lot more than I've seen non-fans care what a fan watches.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:19 AM   #219
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This is pretty much what I view as the video game equivalent for anybody who gives someone shit for liking wrestling or liking a certain form of wrestling.

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Old 08-10-2017, 08:21 AM   #220
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Yeah, the only stigma I see is attached to all soap operas. Just watching trash TV in general and wrestling will never be more than that.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:40 AM   #221
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You guys clearly dont interact with casual and non fans very much then. Its a topic so cut and dry its really not worth the effort to have it. It exist. You are somehow oblivious to it. Its "pretty weird." The end.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:43 AM   #222
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I do every day at work and hell, even wear some wrasslin' shirts now and again. Maybe it's just different here.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:48 AM   #223
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Its similar stigma to watching reality tv. Just considered a cheap guilty pleasure or trash tv. If youre a hardcore fanboy people will think yr weird but that goes for fanboys of everything.

Wwe is trash tv tho so people arent wrong to wonder why we watch. It certainly poisons the well for roh and njpw
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:57 AM   #224
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I do every day at work and hell, even wear some wrasslin' shirts now and again. Maybe it's just different here.
Same here. Hence, I don't view it as an actual stigma. Only blowhards would think less of somebody because they watched something they didn't. Nobody who is worth anything would actually care about what you watch or what you choose to do with your spare time.

Well, unless you diddle kids. Fuck you if you diddle kids. Looking at you Zeeboe.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:14 AM   #225
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Its similar stigma to watching reality tv. Just considered a cheap guilty pleasure or trash tv. If youre a hardcore fanboy people will think yr weird but that goes for fanboys of everything.

Wwe is trash tv tho so people arent wrong to wonder why we watch. It certainly poisons the well for roh and njpw
Yeah, that's what I mean. I mean, you're basically watching simulated fight scenes tied together with a very loose story. It's not a huge stigma, it's just something that puts you in the same camp as people talking about Big Brother or Hollyoaks or whatever.

I'd say that NJPW and ROH would still be trash TV too, even if it's better. I don't think wrestling can ever be anything but that level.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:17 AM   #226
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Presentation is everything. If a more serious product was prevalent, people may not look at it like it was the godfather but more like a high octane action movie.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:38 AM   #227
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But you also have to undo old interpretations going back to the original Wrestlemania. So not only do you need a product like that, but enough people watching it and for it to stay that high quality for many years. Sure, it's possible, but very difficult to attain and would likely need to be of a higher quality in all aspects than ROH or NJPW are.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:30 PM   #228
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I know im.just saying IF that was prevalent peoples perception would be different. But wwe is to wrestling as kleenex is to tissues.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:17 PM   #229
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Vito, just because you personally don't experience it, doesn't mean it's not there.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:57 PM   #230
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And I still think people are overstating the extent to which it may exist. I understand people who just kinda throw it into the trash TV category - but I don't think people actively stick their nose up at it like they once did. Especially not when like 80% of stuff that comes out could be considered trash TV/guilty pleasure nowadays.

We live in a world where the Emoji Movie just came out. Wrestling ain't that bad.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:57 AM   #231
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But a lot of the time he's wrong. Particularly when it comes to anything Kenny Omega does lol
I think he's harsh on Omega, but I don't think he's wrong, per se. Omega is extremely overrated.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:00 AM   #232
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Look, we love wrestling. That's why we're here. We obviously don't care about the stigma to let it deter us, but it's definitely there. You said it yourself: "Trash TV." It's considered trash, regardless of whether or not you think it's trash, or I think it's trash.

And yeah, it's similar to reality TV, except I'd say possibly worse. People accept that people like to look down at the fools who go onto those shows. Wrestling's not that lofty.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:47 AM   #233
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I def. think wrestling is stigmatized by the "media" and advertisers, but outside of that, i think most people in general don't really give a shit.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:56 PM   #234
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Wrestling is becoming more and more accepted by media because the people in media now were wrestling fans as kids. Look at ESPN. 10-15 years ago there's no WAY the WWE would have gotten on that network.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:55 PM   #235
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Same here. Hence, I don't view it as an actual stigma. Only blowhards would think less of somebody because they watched something they didn't. Nobody who is worth anything would actually care about what you watch or what you choose to do with your spare time.

Well, unless you diddle kids. Fuck you if you diddle kids. Looking at you Zeeboe.

Are you flirting with me?
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:06 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
The dick spot is better than 70 per cent of raw cuz at least its over. Not saying much but its tru. Its damn tru.
Raw is the most watched cable show on Monday nights. Dickspot is only over by a small amount of a paying audience. Others are just on-lookers like a trainwreck or some sort of accident.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:09 PM   #237
Dastardly Dale Newstead
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Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Still more over than most of raw.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:32 PM   #238
Ultra Mantis
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Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)Ultra Mantis is a relevant human (75,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Cornette helped Foley out tremendously in WCW, and the two worked together quite closely in the WWF. You don't like him, but that's got nothing to do with the relationships he has fostered in professional wrestling over his career.
But does that mean Foley is supposed to weigh up "Is Jim Cornette going to like this?" before he does anything?
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:55 PM   #239
SlickyTrickyDamon
Quark is Less Impressed.
 
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SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Still more over than most of raw.
No.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:07 PM   #240
Dastardly Dale Newstead
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Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)Dastardly Dale Newstead is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Your terrible explanation doesnt change anything. Ryan gets a reaction. Raw is silent and pops worse ratings than the darkest days of wrestling.
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