05-17-2018, 01:36 PM | #361 |
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05-17-2018, 01:39 PM | #362 | |
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If you want people to see things your way, you need to have uncomfortable conversations "that make you feel gross". Last I checked, none of us have sexually assaulted a woman so we're all playing for the good guys. We are just having a real conversation. |
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05-17-2018, 01:39 PM | #363 |
boop/bop/beep
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05-17-2018, 01:48 PM | #364 | |
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I agree with your second statement. We weren't there, and we may not ever know. That's fair enough. I don't give a shit about Enzo's reputation in this, honestly. Sorry to sound callous, but wasn't she like a drugged-up teenage girl? I can hear Destor saying "Still an adult" now, but surely there must be some more engaging pussy in the world. He's obviously got a touch of the Jerry Lawlers or what have you. I don't have to feel sorry for him putting himself in these situations. And, as I said, TNA has no problem hiring people with sexual assault accusations to their name. It won't make him unemployable or anything. And he lost his job for compounded reasons that are his responsibility. He has not been found guilty unjustly at this point in time. My main concern is the backflips people will do to go after an alleged victim's credibility. It doesn't make me feel good. At all. I completely agree with you that they are more at risk, which is why statements like "some drugged up crazy" (paraphrasing from around the place) or whatever are just...what? Why would you even go down that road? You could describe Enzo the same way, lol. Real life often has holes in it. Stories don't always add up 100% when dealing with messes like this. And I hope we can agree that this is a fucking mess. I'd probably not like to associate with anyone in this story. That doesn't mean Enzo deserves to go to prison if he's innocent, and that doesn't mean that this girl is a liar because she's got issues. |
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05-17-2018, 01:52 PM | #365 | |
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Would it be inappropriate to make a mike adamle joke in response to your last point? I kid, mike. |
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05-17-2018, 02:10 PM | #366 |
Resident drug enabler
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05-17-2018, 02:14 PM | #367 | ||
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05-17-2018, 02:17 PM | #368 |
boop/bop/beep
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Toddster getting in some offence.
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05-17-2018, 02:19 PM | #369 |
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Look, I get that Noid feels "weird" about having the conversation and would rather not continue or whatever. That's cool. Whatever. I am gonna need clarification on that exchange though because that was a fucking bizarre response.
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05-17-2018, 02:22 PM | #370 | |
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I wonder how many of the people crying poor Enzo would honestly defend a woman in this situation if she came up on charges without there being enough evidence that she was actually making it up? To clarify, I'm talking about false allegations, not rape allegations. I could have been more clear by saying "on charges of filing a false report." I thought that was inherent in "that she was actually making it up?" |
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05-17-2018, 02:30 PM | #371 |
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I think skepticism is disproportionately applied in these situations. If you can say you would honestly apply it, good for you. But it was about the standard for evidence, not the subject's sex/gender. That's why I find "it would have nothing to do with sex" (paraphrasing) odd when the answer could have just been "sure." You placed emphasis in a place I didn't expect you to.
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05-17-2018, 02:30 PM | #372 | |
( ._.)
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"Sorry Mr. Amore even though there isn't evidence against you in this rape case, It was unlikely to be a false report given statistics. We will still continue to consider you a rapist" |
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05-17-2018, 02:31 PM | #373 |
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If a woman came up on charges and people were using ridiculous reasoning that has nothing to do with the case then yes, I would defend her. Doesn't change anything.
Also, when you ask "I wonder how many of the people crying poor Enzo would honestly defend a woman in this situation", you're implying sexism. Don't wait for someone else to flat out say it and then act like THEY were the ones bringing sexism into the equation just because they actually used the word first. lol |
05-17-2018, 02:33 PM | #374 |
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"Would you help that old lady cross the road?"
"I'm not doing it because she's a lady!" "Umm...okay? Are you going to help her though?" That's how it came off in my mind. |
05-17-2018, 02:33 PM | #375 | |
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05-17-2018, 02:34 PM | #376 | |
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05-17-2018, 02:34 PM | #377 | |
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"Would you help that old man cross the road?" "Yeah" "What about if it's an old woman?" "Yeah. Doesn't matter what sex the old person is." "... Why would you specify that? Odd." |
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05-17-2018, 02:35 PM | #378 |
( ._.)
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Remember how everyone on TPWW defended Snuka when he wasn't convicted of murdering that women? #GenderBias
Oh wait you don't remember anyone on TPWW defending Snuka? |
05-17-2018, 02:36 PM | #379 |
boop/bop/beep
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Look no further than Emmitt Till to understand false rape accusations. Just because it was a race issue as well doesn't mean shit. It's something that can be weaponized given the connotations of being accused of rape.
And yeah. Enzo isn't exactly the most sympathetic of examples, which makes this discussion all the more poignant. |
05-17-2018, 02:37 PM | #380 |
boop/bop/beep
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Only destor but that's cuz he's a due process hoss so I respect him stubbornly sticking to his guns.
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05-17-2018, 02:37 PM | #381 |
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Okay, would you apply the same standard of evidence to the woman in this case should Enzo decide to counter-sue, for example? Or would you assume guilt because she lacks credibility? Rhetorical question. We both know what the answer should be, but it's something to ask yourself.
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05-17-2018, 02:38 PM | #382 | |
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If it's about a standard of evidence, I don't care about sex OR type of accusation. You seem to think WE'RE the ones treating it differently because it's a rape accusation which is just insane. |
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05-17-2018, 02:39 PM | #383 |
boop/bop/beep
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Roberto Osuna, the closer of the Toronto Blue Jays has assault charges and a restraining order with a woman accuser. Nobody is defending him in this city. Believe me. With the details we know, it doesn't look good for him and it's very disappointing.
It is a case-by-case basis. |
05-17-2018, 02:40 PM | #384 | |
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05-17-2018, 02:40 PM | #385 |
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I'm sorry for my part in leaving that as your interpretation. I hope me clarifying cleared things up for you.
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05-17-2018, 02:41 PM | #386 |
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Noid: "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"
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05-17-2018, 02:42 PM | #387 | |
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How can people not get this? * Most sexual assault allegations aren't baseless and there is not enough evidence to convict aren't mutually exclusively ideas. They can both be true. |
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05-17-2018, 02:43 PM | #388 |
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Noid never liked Enzo.
I'm sure if this story was about Danny Basham he would be defending him to the heavens. |
05-17-2018, 02:46 PM | #389 |
boop/bop/beep
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The whole thing sucks regardless of what happened. Hate hearing about stuff like this.
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05-17-2018, 02:46 PM | #390 |
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05-17-2018, 02:47 PM | #391 |
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05-17-2018, 02:49 PM | #392 |
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Just want to state very clearly that joking or not, the implication that I want Enzo to be a rapist is fucking ludicrous, distasteful, and I have contempt for it. Thanks, you're out.
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05-17-2018, 02:50 PM | #393 |
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05-17-2018, 02:51 PM | #394 | |
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That was literally in the quote. |
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05-17-2018, 02:52 PM | #395 | |
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05-17-2018, 02:55 PM | #396 |
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Actually, I specified in that post that I don't think Dale would treat it differently, and that I hoped you wouldn't. It's just something that is definitely observable out there. You've got your back up like I aimed that at you.
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05-17-2018, 03:02 PM | #397 |
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Well sometimes I have to speak for Dale because he's getting soft at his age.
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05-17-2018, 03:02 PM | #398 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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What religious stuff? |
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05-17-2018, 03:04 PM | #399 |
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Oof. Neg repping. Clearly Noid hasn't gone soft at his age.
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05-17-2018, 03:05 PM | #400 | |
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We're in agreement that it doesn't mean "she's definitely lying," but where we diverge is where you say "take it with a grain of salt." THAT is skeevy. You can still take something seriously without throwing someone into prison for it automatically. I feel the need to stress that "crazy chicks can get raped too," because you have very strongly implied that if a woman is crazy her claim of rape lacks validity. I am sorry if I have misinterpreted you on that as you did me earlier, but I think that's even present in the "grain of salt" comment right there. Maybe I am placing too much weight on your specific choice of words there? I dunno, man. Dale could identify that women with substance abuse problems and a history of lies in the past could be more at risk. I don't see why it's such a problem for you. And I said it to Savio, so I'll say it you: I resent the implication that I wouldn't take the same line with Daniel Bryan. I took the same line with Rich Swann, and I'll take the same line if it happens with someone else. |
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