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View Poll Results: Who is the better wrestler? | |||
"The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels | 18 | 62.07% | |
Mitsuharu Misawa | 11 | 37.93% | |
Voters: 29. You must log in or register to vote on this poll. |
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Thread Tools | Display Modes |
09-07-2017, 03:13 PM | #1 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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Better Wrestler #78
VS 3 DAYS |
09-07-2017, 03:15 PM | #2 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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This is honestly more of an expiriment. As the number of people on the board lessens there a higher percentage of puro marks than there was. Curious how this goes...prob be a slaughter...
Misawa is on my list of top 5 of all time, and HBM isnt in my top 10. |
09-07-2017, 04:08 PM | #3 |
underground legend
Posts: 265
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I don't really know Misawa's work to be honest. Also, HBK is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time so there wont be many who I'd vote over him anyways.
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09-07-2017, 04:11 PM | #4 |
Loque Ja
Posts: 87,868
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I've heard the other guy's name, but that's about it.
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09-07-2017, 06:44 PM | #5 |
Best Poster
Posts: 56,903
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Fuuuuuuuck I'm going to have to think about that one. Gotta factor in Misawa's Tiger Mask run too
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09-07-2017, 06:59 PM | #6 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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Cultural impact, longevity and revenue...its all Misawa. Not to mention workrate and off the charts matches...i mean for me they aren't even in the same league. Like asking who is better hogan or al snow.
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09-07-2017, 07:24 PM | #7 |
Reigning Tipsters Champ!
Posts: 2,087
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Not all too familiar with Misawa, but I think in any case, the Al Snow comparison is tongue in cheek! Michaels had more than his fair share of absolute classic to compete with anyone in that respect. Even workrateaholics. As well as so many special/emotional moments and some superb stories told.
He was a dickhead, but he was amazing at what he did. Even with Misawa's longevity, match catalogue and cultural impact in Japan, to say Al Snow is disingenuous. Just couldn't be that far off match wise. As far as an American style of wrestling goes, Michaels was the very best. |
09-07-2017, 07:25 PM | #8 |
Reigning Tipsters Champ!
Posts: 2,087
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Also...Misawa looked like shit
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09-07-2017, 07:41 PM | #9 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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HBM def had some GOAT level matches but outside of Flair no one has the A++ catalog that Misawa has. The gap between them is a chasm. Misawas last match was the GOAT until the next time he worked...for decades. In the mid 90s when people say HBM was having the best matches in the world he was having the 2nd best matches, Misawa was easily the best worker on Earth.
HBM was great, Misawa was otherworldly. Plus Misawa was drawing money with his 5* matches and Vince was trying not to go belly up with Michaels. |
09-07-2017, 08:07 PM | #10 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,427
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lool what the fuck I meant to vote Michaels since I haven't seen enough Misawa, and somehow chose Misawa. I need to stop smoking so much dope.
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09-07-2017, 08:22 PM | #11 | |
Reigning Tipsters Champ!
Posts: 2,087
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Quote:
A lot of Japanese wrestlers are legends only so far as Japan, because the demands are different. Hard to judge Misawa outside of Japan. He didn't have a marketable look. I remember Gertner made a good argument about Flair's lack of fame in the Northern states and internationally based on where he wrestled. Same argument can be applied to Japanese only wrestlers. I think it has to be to be fair. |
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09-07-2017, 08:25 PM | #12 |
Reigning Tipsters Champ!
Posts: 2,087
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Fully admit I am a massive HBK mark. My favourite of all time by a distance and he represents to me the last of the psychology guys who had that contact with the older generation.
Nowadays guys keep the crowd by doing crazy move after crazy move. Guys like Michaels were the last to have learned how to work the crowd by doing less and having it mean more. Readily admit that now like guys like him and Taker have gone, I have little to no interest in seeing Usos, Big E, Ambrose or whoever else, suicide dive every episode of Raw. |
09-07-2017, 08:31 PM | #13 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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Problem with the region argument (it was a false argument then as is now) would be as true for the competition. Michaels wasnt moving tshirts in japan in 96. Fsct is both were at the top of major promotions do business om a national level, cept Misawa was succesful and HBM wasnt.
Also comparatively michaels got over not by doing less but by doing more. He became a less is more guy once he was old. Misawa chose to die in the ring like a fucking Viking instead. |
09-07-2017, 08:32 PM | #14 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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09-07-2017, 08:41 PM | #15 |
Best Poster
Posts: 56,903
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Ended up going Misawa
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09-07-2017, 09:16 PM | #16 |
Reigning Tipsters Champ!
Posts: 2,087
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I think many would say Michaels second run was better than his first, when he was smarter and worked the right away.
Misawa dying in the ring could be taken as a point against his longevity. There is always an argument about going on too long to be had. Michaels went out on top in a massive match |
09-07-2017, 09:18 PM | #17 |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
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I like what little I've seen of Misawa. No one has ever been able to get me as emotionally invested in wrestling matches on a consistent basis more than Michaels though. As an overall performer, he's the GOAT.
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09-07-2017, 09:21 PM | #18 |
Hey Mister!
Posts: 54,947
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Misiwa spent a whole career putting on classics without any breaks, and didn't stop until he died in the middle of the ring. He also made numerous stars, and changed the entire landscape of pro wrestling in japan with Noah.
Also I said it in the top puro star thread, but the style of wrestling Misiwa spearheaded in the 90's had a huge impact on the industry that is still felt to this day. WWE and NJPW as well as many idependants use a style today that is closer to 90's kings road style than anything they did previously. Misiwa all the way fof me. |
09-07-2017, 09:25 PM | #19 | |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
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Quote:
There is something to be said about the fact that Michaels retired as ARGUABLY the greatest of all time... and then came back and somehow had an even better second career... and then retired from that second career as the best in the business. It's insane. I get the "he's old, he's gotta put over younger guys" thing. But that usually works for when guys are over the hill. HBK still somehow seemed like he was just getting better all the way to his last retirement. Should have had more of a run with the title. He seriously should have been neck-and-neck with Cena as the face of the company during that second run instead of kinda just being there to get other guys ready for 8 years. |
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09-07-2017, 10:08 PM | #20 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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Him dieing performing cant be held against him. He literally gave his life to wrestling.
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09-07-2017, 11:35 PM | #21 |
WOOOOOOOOO!
Posts: 12,227
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I went Misawa. HBK's career is solid but the fan in me went the other way
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09-07-2017, 11:38 PM | #22 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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Interesting poll so far
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09-08-2017, 12:09 AM | #23 |
Posts: 3,664
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Who in the blue hell is Misawa?
I'm guessing someone only IWC nerds are aware of. |
09-08-2017, 01:43 AM | #24 |
Hey Mister!
Posts: 54,947
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09-08-2017, 01:58 AM | #25 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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Dont reward such a flagrant troll attempt
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09-08-2017, 04:35 AM | #26 |
Posts: 60,919
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I went with Misawa. Really tough match out the gate for HBK, who I figured wouldn't be challenged.
Shawn Michaels is great in the ring and carries a lot of significance in the western world. There is no doubt about that. There is also no doubt that culturally HBK never meant as much as some other stars -- Hogan, Rock, Austin, Andre, probably even Savage, etc. Misawa is a fucking god. The phrase "Hulk Hogan of Japan" is cheap to throw around, but it really is the best comparison you can draw. He's not the Shawn Michaels of Japan. Critically speaking, you can't look past Misawa's catalog of matches. The dude was having ***** classics back before Meltzer blew up the system (well, maybe he had). Meltzer has always found alternative tastes, I suppose, but there's no doubt that Misawa has significance in professional wrestling, generally, as the figure that was carrying the quality of wrestling in 1995 when everything in North America (which featured Shawn Michaels) was sucking. Money drawn is always a big indicator for me too, because ultimately that is the goal of a wrestler. If you get more money out of people by simply throwing a punch than someone who goes 60+ minutes then there's no doubt in my mind who did a better job. It's the dude who managed to provide more people with something that they felt they needed to part with their money to see. Misawa definitely heads up Shawn Michaels in that category, and it's nothing to snooze on. Truth be told, I don't really see a case for Shawn Michaels other than cultural bias. Maybe you can make the case that HBK had more "energetic" matches and was slightly more athletic in style, but it comes down to personal preference again. |
09-08-2017, 06:11 AM | #27 |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
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Shawn was also more of a showman. His mannerisms, selling and all-around storytelling ability was out of this world. There's gonna be a cultural bias either way but Michaels excelled in every aspect of performing the American style.
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09-08-2017, 06:45 AM | #28 |
TPWW's #3 Peep
Posts: 20,891
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Can't we just skip ahead and put Shawn Michaels in the HOF already?
Also... Shawn Michaels. |
09-08-2017, 08:01 AM | #29 |
Reigning Tipsters Champ!
Posts: 2,087
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It's not just cultural bias though, it's personal preference about what a great wrestler is. The whole showman side and storytelling ability is a massive thing for me and what made HBK stand out for me personally.
I watched a few Misawa matches on YouTube (one against Kawada), and while it was hard hitting and intense and the fans were into it, I wouldn't say it was more entertaining than Michaels big matches. A lot of big forearms and very real looking strikes. Puro isn't for everyone and Japanese wrestling continues to have a niche following outside of Japan. At the end of the day, Michaels entertained me so much that I can't help but go with him, but I also MUCH prefer his style of matches and what being a wrestler is in the US as opposed to Japan. It's not necessarily bias to have a preference and an idea of what a wrestler should be. Showmanship, theatrics and storytelling are all far bigger markers for me than who can hit hardest and show the most "spirit" |
09-08-2017, 08:25 AM | #30 |
( ._.)
Posts: 13,896
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HBK, I'm not sure who the other jobber is.
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09-08-2017, 11:55 AM | #31 |
Posts: 3,664
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Yeah I'm nowhere the kind "nerd" that try's booking everyone/deduct from a match cause of minor shit that shouldn't matter.
Cause not knowing/caring about someone from Japan is trolling? |
09-08-2017, 12:09 PM | #32 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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*yawn*
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09-08-2017, 12:29 PM | #33 |
Posts: 3,664
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09-08-2017, 12:32 PM | #34 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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Im sure someone will have their jimmies rustled any second now! Keep throwing those softballs SK.
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09-08-2017, 01:16 PM | #35 |
( ._.)
Posts: 13,896
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09-08-2017, 01:23 PM | #36 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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Honestly I cant get off anymore unless its atleast an animated rape scenerio
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09-08-2017, 08:08 PM | #37 |
Amazon Affiliate
Posts: 42,694
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I PICKED THE GUY WITH HIS EYES OPEN.
SEE THAT'S WHAT A RACIST WOULD SAY. IT'S DEMEANING TO REDUCE SOMEONE TO A STEREOTYPICAL RACIAL PHYSICAL TRAIT. I THINK HBK HAD MORE CHARISMA IN THE RING. I CAN'T RATE THE OTHER GUY ON THE MIC DUE TO THE LANGUAGE BARRIER. |
09-08-2017, 09:26 PM | #38 |
Former TPWW Royalty
Posts: 66,588
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Voted for HBK mainly for watching a lot more of his stuff and knowing or seen very little of Misawa's career.
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09-08-2017, 09:58 PM | #39 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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Really good poll. Misawa has done better than i could have imagined. Def wont go crazy with puro but its good to know that there's a faction thats familiar with it.
Question for all applicable: was there anyone who voted for Michaels that had a high familiarity with Misawa? |
09-08-2017, 10:02 PM | #40 |
His name is Jeff Harvey
Posts: 5,256
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I'm still mulling it over. Very familiar with Misawa, but HBK is HBK.
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