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Old 12-05-2017, 11:40 PM   #81
Tom Guycott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I don't think it's supposed to be BAD. I think it's supposed to be over the top. I also think Noid's problem seems to stem from the fact that it's presented with wrestling that doesn't match up with the "world" it exists in. Which is debatable.
... the same "world" where Kurt Angle has an illegitimate mulato son, Undertaker is a zombie biker priest who can control lightning indoors and is led by a magical urn, and people aren't sure if Dusty Rhodes and The Midnight Rider are the same person or not.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:03 AM   #82
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I count myself among those who just don't get the Matt Hardy thing and its appeal. Whatever, though...... I guess it does make me go from "ugh Matt Hardy I just don't care" to "ugh Matt Hardy this is cringeworthy but at least I am paying attention to it?"
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:12 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
... the same "world" where Kurt Angle has an illegitimate mulato son, Undertaker is a zombie biker priest who can control lightning indoors and is led by a magical urn, and people aren't sure if Dusty Rhodes and The Midnight Rider are the same person or not.
Yeah. I'm saying that whole argument isn't even relevant to begin with though. Even if the "worlds" were totally different, WWE still sucks and if something that is entertaining comes along, I'm not gonna be too worried about whether it matches up with WWE's "world". I'm gonna watch that thing and ignore the other shit. If WWE were to actually start putting out a compelling product again, THEN we can get to whether Matt fits in and if he's a detriment to the rest of the show or not.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:36 AM   #84
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:40 AM   #85
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Noid acts like wrestling has some moral code and the gimmick breaks it somehow. Wrestling is not above anything as it has proved over the years. There is not set standard in wrestling that makes it good or bad as it mostly subjective and tries to appease many different demographics. One of the main reason the Broken gimmick works is because its came during a time when wrestling is trying to be too serious and people actually want to see something that they don't see every week. It's also something that a talent came up with themselves and not the same old dull writing that come from creative.

I think Bray is perfect to debut the character with but I also feel that alot of the aspects that made Broken Hardy work should have been used for him. They've tried to give him the supernatural powers but never pulled the trigger. I think it'd be beneficial to Wyatt to actually join Hardy instead of the other way around. If Wyatt joins Hardy and begins to please the 7 Deities, then they might start to favor him more than Hardy. I just hope it does something for Wyatt in the long haul.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:41 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BROKEN Hasney View Post
Oh no, because if they didn't run with this angle, the show with the dude who turns into a demon for pay per views, the Olympic gold medalist with a black son given to him as a rib, the cross dressing furry preacher that may be possessed by a demon and a dude thst emerges from garbage trucks would be so great.

It's not even a straw thst breaks the camels back, it's more entertaining than all of that (potentially)
Your argument is that things that also aren't good means that other things not good should be considered good? Okay. I hate all those things listed. You're completely misrepresenting my position for your convenience, but you've got nothing else, so of course you are.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:43 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
Wrestling in America is and always will be looked down upon. Even at it's most popular, it still has that carny stink to people who don't watch it.
And this is not going to help with that.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:47 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
Noid, I'll never understand why you spend time shitting on this stuff. It's clearly not your cup of tea, and you don't seem to have a financial stake in it. Why not just ignore it?
You always do this. I'm a numbers guy. I like thinking about why stuff does and doesn't work. And I like talking about wresting and how it could be better, worse, etc. Just because you don't get that doesn't mean I am wrong for doing it. The gross irony is that your critique of my critiquing is just as offensive as mine could possibly be, and that never seems to register with you. If you don't like thinking about that sort of stuff, don't think about it. But how dare you tell someone they are wrong for pointing out what they think is wrong without any appreciation of the irony.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:58 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I don't think it's supposed to be BAD. I think it's supposed to be over the top. I also think Noid's problem seems to stem from the fact that it's presented with wrestling that doesn't match up with the "world" it exists in. Which is debatable. But wrestling sucks now. So I can just watch whatever Matt's doing and not give a fuck about context.

If I were to watch a full Raw now, I wouldn't be thinking "What is this weird Matt Hardy shit doing in the middle of my wrestling show?" I'd be thinking "What is this horrible wrestling show doing interrupting my glorious Matt Hardy skits?"
Ding, ding ding -- #fan gets it again. There's a reason he's one of the best posters here. I don't like the hokey shit. I appreciated irony in wrestling for a tiny bit when I had trouble controlling my erections, but then I grew up. But I've always hated hokey. I hate large portions of what The Undertaker has done because of this. I hate a large part of what Braun Strowman is doing now because of this. It's cute that people are trying to use that against me in order to try and portray me as a WWE apologist or something.

Where you and I differ is that I think wrestling sucks, but I'm not going to enjoy watching someone piss on a goat just because the rest is shit. It is possible for Braun Strowman being crushed in a trash compactor and Matt Hardy being a geek to both be completely shit. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

And that's why you're the only supporter of this that has ever made any sense to me, because at least you just say "I enjoy it" and can identify that it's enjoyment comes from complete dissatisfaction with the rest of wrestling, instead of some fucking barely cohesive explanation about why it is actually good and why apparently I'm a freak because I don't think a guy pulling funny faces and doing funny voices in lieu of anything substantive is compelling.

I honestly haven't had my brain cells lowered so much as these fucking conversations about Broken Matt Hardy. It's trash. Fuck supporting this shit, it is literally why we can't have nice things. I try not to offend people personally with this, but it really makes me uncomfortable how...stupid people are about this. It's really, really stupid.

Last edited by Noid; 12-06-2017 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:09 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
Just wondering, Noid: did you really miss the point of my posts, or are you just trolling because you want to hammer home without a shadow of any doubt that you don't happen to be a fan of the #broken business?

Pulling two random "fighters" - one of whom is a total work of fiction, and another who is a flesh and blood UFC fighter and loosely bridging them because "fan of fighting" isn't exactly the same thing as comparing two movies. A better one - and one I would have made - would have been to say that if I were that "fan of fighting" I like both boxing and mma.

Either way, you seem way too perplexed that people could like a thing you don't... and yes, I'm the same person who has never been super high on HHH or never saw the supposed value of Eva Marie in any capacity; that people who like the Broken Matt do so just to be contrarian and/or edgy as there is no other conceivable reason for anyone to find it endearing or entertaining in any way.
I addressed your analogy and I don't think it was very good. This is not boxing and MMA. Both at least try to take themselves a little seriously. Well, MMA does. I could say that this is more like comparing the films of Spielberg to a German porn director who might even be able to tell you where to get some snuff. Anyone can pull a random analogy out of their ass. I'm not convinced by yours and I explained why I don't think it contextually applies.

No, I'm not perplexed as to why people could like a thing I don't. There are plenty of things I like that people don't, and there are plenty of things that people like that I don't. Stop trying to toss that blanket over this. I am disgusted by this, like I would be backyard wrestling, or low-level porn where you're not sure the actors didn't get paid in anything but drugs. I don't mind if people love Casablanca or trashy B-movies or whatever. I'm not talking about that -- I'm talking about this hack shit and it being presented in the mainstream.

Matt Hardy is not MMA. He's not boxing. He's not even your mother's fucking Tai Chi class.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:01 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Your argument is that things that also aren't good means that other things not good should be considered good? Okay. I hate all those things listed. You're completely misrepresenting my position for your convenience, but you've got nothing else, so of course you are.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:10 AM   #92
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I hope Vanguard 1 reappears. Well, I at least hope he got over his drinking problem first. Poor little drone.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:54 AM   #93
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Should swoop in and attack Bray as he is delivering a spooky promo.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:57 AM   #94
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Quote:
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Should swoop in and attack Bray as he is delivering a spooky promo.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:25 AM   #95
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Vanguard 1 entering the Royal Rumble would blow the roof off of the fucking building.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:26 AM   #96
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Also I can't help but picture Frank Grimes when I read Noid's posts about Matt Hardy. I hope for his safety that there are no open electrical circuits around.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:29 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post

Matt Hardy is not MMA. He's not boxing. He's not even your mother's fucking Tai Chi class.
No he's a wrestler and they have gimmicks in wrestling. Do you want wrestling to be presented like MMA and boxing?
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:19 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
You always do this. I'm a numbers guy. I like thinking about why stuff does and doesn't work. And I like talking about wresting and how it could be better, worse, etc. Just because you don't get that doesn't mean I am wrong for doing it. The gross irony is that your critique of my critiquing is just as offensive as mine could possibly be, and that never seems to register with you. If you don't like thinking about that sort of stuff, don't think about it. But how dare you tell someone they are wrong for pointing out what they think is wrong without any appreciation of the irony.
Please quote where I said you were wrong to have a different opinion. You can't because I have never said that, but it's the narrative you love to push on me.

Being a numbers guy is fine. It's not that I "don't get that," but again you love to spin it to make me seem like a moron because you're a dick.

You clearly just come into threads like these to bitch about how everyone is terrible for enjoying something that you don't. I just don't see how this is a good time for you.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:19 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
No he's a wrestler and they have gimmicks in wrestling. Do you want wrestling to be presented like MMA and boxing?
Personally yes
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:44 PM   #100
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I see the broken character as a comedy act for smarks. Santino was for kids, Broken Matt is for adults, except Matt can actually wrestle. Theres a place for him on the card. Not everything can be super serious. Wrestling is about entertainment right?
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:45 PM   #101
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What about this character is for adults?
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:54 PM   #102
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What about this character is for adults?
Hes basically satire of pro wrestling. Hes over the top poking fun at how campy wrestling is.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:55 PM   #103
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Yeah I dont thats the case but ok
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:08 PM   #104
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KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)KIRA is having sex with your girlfriend and her slightly more attractive sister (100,000+)
Quote:
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Yeah I dont thats the case but ok
For me its wrestling MST3K

Its sooo god awful that I like the fact that it sucks

I've never seen it as anything more than that
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:10 PM   #105
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For me its wrestling MST3K

Its sooo god awful that I like the fact that it sucks

I've never seen it as anything more than that
Yeah thats a better way of putting it than how I said it. I agree 100 percent
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:11 PM   #106
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MST3K is great because its great..the movies suck...maybe if someone was doing commentary over the top of Matts stuff it would be better
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:17 PM   #107
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I kind of get what he's going for, but it may not necessarily be for me.

That said, Matt is very good at getting himself over with his intended audience in the modern era. His singles run, from V1 onwards demonstrate this. His best act was doing in 1 feud what WWE itself couldn't do with 6 months and every top guy they could find: Make people buy Edge as a heel.

In essence, Matt is probably one of the better minds of wrestling, as crazy as that sounds. Even if the Broken/Woken Universe makes ZERO FUCKING SENSE.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:17 PM   #108
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Quote:
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No he's a wrestler and they have gimmicks in wrestling. Do you want wrestling to be presented like MMA and boxing?
I'd like wins and losses to matter.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:00 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by screech View Post
Please quote where I said you were wrong to have a different opinion. You can't because I have never said that, but it's the narrative you love to push on me.

Being a numbers guy is fine. It's not that I "don't get that," but again you love to spin it to make me seem like a moron because you're a dick.

You clearly just come into threads like these to bitch about how everyone is terrible for enjoying something that you don't. I just don't see how this is a good time for you.
Because I love discussing wrestling. Again, we're back to where we started. I'm not going to do this dance with you anymore. Your perceptions are your perceptions. Enjoy them. I hope they are a good time for you.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:02 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
No he's a wrestler and they have gimmicks in wrestling. Do you want wrestling to be presented like MMA and boxing?
It'd be a start, haha.

Everybody is using pro-wrestling strategies to get rich except pro-wrestling. It's so weird.

Having gimmicks are fine. Everybody has a gimmick. It doesn't mean the gimmick has to be so outlandish it doesn't make sense and remind people of why they outgrew this stuff in the first place.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:12 PM   #111
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Really, if they don't bring in the supernatural stuff, Matt Hardy being a weird fuck who snapped and started believing he was royalty and speaking in an English accent while mispronouncing words because he's not ACTUALLY as cultured as he thinks he is... isn't even that unrealistic of a wrestling gimmick if you think about it.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:27 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Really, if they don't bring in the supernatural stuff, Matt Hardy being a weird fuck who snapped and started believing he was royalty and speaking in an English accent while mispronouncing words because he's not ACTUALLY as cultured as he thinks he is... isn't even that unrealistic of a wrestling gimmick if you think about it.
No, and I've always said that. I can buy Matt as a "tortured artist" who has never been as charismatic or as good as his brother. Matt is legitimately a crazy, obnoxious bastard who keeps pet giraffes and has all this shit lying around.

It loses me on a few fronts:

1. The supernatural stuff. Fuck off. Disqualified.

2. The attempts at what I think are comedy. If you laugh because Matt says an unusual word, then I just don't think we are ever going to have the same tastes in terms of satire. Someone posted a gif of Matt and Helms doing this hack thumbs up joke that would only be funny to 12 year olds 12 years ago. It's just so bad in terms of its actual substance and scripting. If this were a B-movie trying to be bad, I would hate it just as much, because I prefer things that are so bad that they're good; not so bad that they're just bad.

3. The fandom around it. It's drooling. It's gross. Some people are just...easy, I guess. I don't know how to say it without insulting people, haha. It makes me feel like intellectual discussion about wrestling is impossible. Like, I feel like you have to communicate in memes and people saying "NO! You are the DELETED chosen one! Let us celebrate over kumquats, crochets and pomegranates!" like it means anything. It's just de-spiriting, and there's no way not be elitist about it. It's lame and embarrassing.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:42 PM   #113
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Because I love discussing wrestling. Again, we're back to where we started. I'm not going to do this dance with you anymore. Your perceptions are your perceptions. Enjoy them. I hope they are a good time for you.
Yes, the song and dance of you ignoring direct questions with condescending paragraphs.

It's not about my perceptions. It's you being an asshole instead of answering simple questions.

I hope your tower is nice
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:51 PM   #114
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The Triple H burial joke with Helms was too much of a wink and a nod. It was cringeworthy "IWC humor" that didn't really fit.

The rest of the stuff is just fun. Not meant to be taken seriously. In a wrestling era where stuff is meant to be taken seriously and not fun. I feel the same about Southpaw Regional Wrestling. I don't see why this should be held to a different standard than that. In both cases, you either like them based on their own merit or you don't. As a wrestling fan, I enjoy the over-the-top absurdity of both. It's not something that's been done to death yet with wrestling.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:51 PM   #115
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Noid: "Extremely high voltage, I don't need to wear safety gloves because I like Broken Matt Hardy"
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:53 PM   #116
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Someone please unban The Cynick for a few minutes so he can weigh in on this. Pretty please?
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:57 PM   #117
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I remember CyNick was really adamant that all these NERDS who wanted him to come in with the broken gimmick didn't understand wrestling because no one knows what "Broken Matt" is so WWE will need to "break" him somehow to start the gimmick new for everyone.

Didn't he just kinda... suddenly start the gimmick last week after losing a match?

Willing to bet CyNick would flip flop now and be like "You see, there's no reason to waste time 'breaking' him. They just got to the point. Brilliant on WWE's part, really."
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:01 PM   #118
#BrotherVito DELETED
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#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)#BrotherVito DELETED is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
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Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Someone please unban The Cynick for a few minutes so he can weigh in on this. Pretty please?
Nah, Heyman can't weigh in. He's banned.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:08 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
Yes, the song and dance of you ignoring direct questions with condescending paragraphs.

It's not about my perceptions. It's you being an asshole instead of answering simple questions.

I hope your tower is nice
Lol, the whole point of those paragraphs is that you're in a tower, mate. You can't just toss the ball back and say "There!" If you feel like a moron when discussing with me then I suggest you look at what you actually imply.

I...like...talking...about...wrestling. When...it...sucks...I...talk...about...why...I...think...it...sucks. When...it's...good...I...talk...about...why...I...think...it's...good. I...think...this...sucks...and...I...think...it's...symptomatic...of...large...problems.

Can you understand yet? I am allowed to come in here and talk about something happening in wrestling and say "This is dumb; this is why." You don't have to understand why. If you'd rather just have a love-stream pouring out of you all the time, that's cool. I think that's overrated and naive. Other people think it is a recipe to a long life. Different strokes for different folks. That is how you condescend to the opinion of others just as much as I do when I say "Nah, this is really bad, guys." You're implying that your idea of a good time must be better than someone else's idea of a good time. At least I can be honest when I say that anyone of the opinion that this is good stuff is wrong.

And when people say "I just like it," like #fan does, we have a really good discussion about it. Odd that, isn't it? It's almost as if when people turn to ad hominem attacks don't have a retorts for why this might just be a really bad piece of business that it turns into a bunch of butt-hurt people upset that Broken Matt isn't anywhere near close to universally adored.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:10 PM   #120
Noid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I remember CyNick was really adamant that all these NERDS who wanted him to come in with the broken gimmick didn't understand wrestling because no one knows what "Broken Matt" is so WWE will need to "break" him somehow to start the gimmick new for everyone.

Didn't he just kinda... suddenly start the gimmick last week after losing a match?

Willing to bet CyNick would flip flop now and be like "You see, there's no reason to waste time 'breaking' him. They just got to the point. Brilliant on WWE's part, really."
Well, he's actually not wrong about the first bit. No one did actually give a shit about Broken Matt outside the hardest of the hardcores. The YouTube videos average 300,000 hits. That is not anywhere near close to total penetration. His WWE one is probably already doing better than his TNA ones ever did.

But you're right in that he would flip-flop and say that they are brilliant and giving Matt Hardy a chance to do fan service and appeal to those live crowds.
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