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Old 07-04-2017, 02:18 PM   #1
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What are peoples' thoughts on this...
Off NoDQ...



During a recent interview, Roman Reigns was asked about a possible heel turn and Reigns commented on why he doesn't think that would be a good idea:

"Whatever we've been doing, it seems to be working. It continues to have loud reactions. Nobody has been to more wrestling shows than me, you know what I mean? I watch every show. I understand reactions. You can be as informed within the wrestling community and the internet as you want but there's one thing that I know and that's listening to what kind of reactions are happening."

"One thing I like about my situation, I think if I were to commit to one (role) 'I'm a bad guy now, I'm pissed and I'm just gonna try to take everybody' then it's just only one (reaction) like, 'boo.' But when I'm out there, there's all kinds of noise. There's all kinds of chants. It's pandemonium. I like a mixed reaction. I like people competing as to which is going to be louder, the boos or the cheers. I just want to bring out the most in our fans, give them an opportunity to rage or to fulfill themselves with joy. They spend their hard-earned money, I want them to have a phenomenal experience."


Does he have a point? Is it really the only thing that matters? Is this a personal opinion or a reflection of what the top brass believe?

Thought it would be interesting to have a thread about it and discuss reactions in wrestling as a whole. A face morphed from Bruno to Hogan to Austin and since then, it's been very hard for a top face to get a pure face pop. It has been mixed since Cena.

Is it a sign of horrendous booking or is it becoming harder and harder to book marketable faces in wrestling that can cover every age gap?
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:22 PM   #2
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I keep thinking of what happened with Daniel Bryan and it makes me believe that it is their ineptitude and refusal to push who fans can get behind, but then there are obviously circumstances behind the scenes.

If they had gone full steam ahead with Bryan, he was finished a year or two later...
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:58 PM   #3
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It actually started before Cena. The Rock was getting shit on as a face when he was winding down his full-time career, too. After the Monday night wars they just forgot how to build babyfaces and now this whole "Well, at least people are reacting!" is a cop-out so they can give themselves an excuse not to try. There is a such thing as bad heat. There's a reason fewer and fewer people have cared about wrestling consistently over the past 15 years. Faces getting booed because they're shitty characters is not a good thing.
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Old 07-04-2017, 06:09 PM   #4
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"I'm not a good guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm just THE guy" is the worst catch phrase-ish thing ever.
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Old 07-04-2017, 06:20 PM   #5
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I'm personally not really nuts for the whole "This is MY yard!" catchphrase either. I mean sure, it's succinct and it's meant to make a powerful impression like "DAMN, this guy's a fucking badass!" but from a guy like Roman it just comes off as a megalomaniacal saying from a guy who isn't yet a full-time main eventer, isn't the face of the company and hasn't gained acceptance from the fans as either of those things. He comes across, IMHO, as a wannabe badass, and at that, one whom I feel it would do a world of good to turn heel and keep using the catchphrase while wrecking shop and just doing whatever the fiuck he pleases to whomever and/or whatever he wants, whenever he wants to do so. Until then, I can't really ever see him being successful to the same degree as someone like Cena or any of the other great main eventers in wrestling history.
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Old 07-04-2017, 07:35 PM   #6
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He's obviously not going to say "They should make me a bad guy" if they don't want him to be a bad guy. That would be career suicide. He'd be jobbing to Curt Hawkins.
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Old 07-04-2017, 07:50 PM   #7
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He basically gave the Cena excuse for reactions even though he's somewhat right about it. Cena said in countless interviews about he rather see a vocal crowd even if they are against him than no or limited reactions since at least it means the crowd is active for his stuff.

Biggest difference between the two was Cena at least had a heel run that was both very popular and very helpful for his development into a big star. Reigns right now is like puffy hair era Rock in terms of how stunted his development as a big star has been and all because Vince is too stubborn to try a big solo heel run to give him the character development needed.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:49 AM   #8
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"As long as people are doing something -- even if it's turning off our television and cancelling their Network subscriptions -- it is a good thing."
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Old 07-05-2017, 04:06 AM   #9
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Reigns was great in NXT as a LeBron James style "franchise player", really great fit for his look and natural charisma. I'd like to see that back, but I doubt we will.

On the subject, it is a cop out but they've boxed themselves into a corner (same deal with Cena) where they have a big portion of the audience calling for a heel turn, so when/if it happens it'll result in a positive reaction from that vocal portion of the crowd, and all we've done is flip the fan reaction around.
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Old 07-05-2017, 04:34 AM   #10
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Yeah, Reigns is basically a heel now because they're trying to push him as a face. If they turned him heel, he'd be cool almost instantly. Which is why they should probably turn him if they want him to be the face of the company.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:35 PM   #11
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I think he's drinking the kool aid that Vince is pouring him. He does get the loudest reactions but they are not the intended reaction they want. He's different from Cena as Cena can actually turn some boos into cheers simply by grabbing a microphone. Any time Roman has a mic its usually bad and fans just dont want to hear it so they boo. I think where Reigns is at right now is about as heel as he's going to get. His character is not that of a face except he wont sell out basically.

If he turns heel will people like him? That might be the problem there as they'd rather have a face that gets booed than a heel that gets cheers but it doesn't seem to stop them with who ever Reigns is working with. Only way he could go heel and still be hated is by joining up with HHH and Stephanie I believe but like I said thats the only part of his character keeping him a face at the moment.
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Old 07-05-2017, 04:34 PM   #12
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I think people are over-estimating the love he would get as a heel. He'd get face pops when he turned and then for a bit after. Once the shock wears off and he's settled in and starts being booked like the typical paint-by-numbers heel, he'd get the same reaction most heels who aren't IWC darlings get.
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Old 07-05-2017, 04:35 PM   #13
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I think people are over-estimating the love he would get as a heel. He'd get face pops when he turned and then for a bit after. Once he's settled in and starts being booked like the typical paint-by-numbers heel, he'd get the same reaction most heels who aren't IWC darlings get.
Ha, fair point. I think that's more of a reason to turn him then. It at least pops the joint back into place, and you can at least make a babyface against him.
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:44 PM   #14
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Yeah, Reigns is basically a heel now because they're trying to push him as a face. If they turned him heel, he'd be cool almost instantly. Which is why they should probably turn him if they want him to be the face of the company.
I don't think he'd be cool right away. I think the guy gets booed because a)he is shoved down our throats, b) he's not that good. He comes off entitled and lazy plus he isn't anything special in the ring. Turning heel isn't going to make those people booing cheer, but it will help develop a personality over time. Reigns is so bland and boring, he is almost like Randy Orton.
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:47 PM   #15
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He's absolutely right and I've been saying it for atleast a year
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Old 07-06-2017, 01:15 PM   #16
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I think the only way to truly get people behind Roman would be a Shield reunion and actually keeping them all together for the rest of their careers. Let Roman be the no-nonsense shit kicker that he was then. That would help get people re-invested in Ambrose too.

They don't have to only work as a stable (although getting those amazing 6-man tag matches back would be lovely) - they can obviously do solo stuff and even wrestle each other if needed. But just let them be The Shield and the fans will eat it up.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:39 PM   #17
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He's absolutely right and I've been saying it for atleast a year
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:41 PM   #18
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Opposite
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:41 PM   #19
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YOU GUYS ARE GETTING WORKED YO
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:47 PM   #20
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I don't know. Sounds like Destor's drinking WWE's Kool-Aid.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:48 PM   #21
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:53 PM   #22
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The face of your company getting massive face pops is clearly the most desirable option. I think even that dipshit CyNick (RIP) had to admit that.

WWE trying to make people believe that mixed reactions are for the best is basically them trying to cover up for their inability to make a top face who is actually over by making it seem like the fact that people hate him so much is just part of some genius, cutting edge booking. It's not. It's just what happens as a result of shitty booking.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:57 PM   #23
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I get what you are saying Destor, but is people like me losing interest and not watching, really being worked?

At what point does it stop being a work to generate interest and when does it start being them shooting themselves in the foot?

Also, for those on the other side, how do you book a top face in 2017?

I feel like the answer is, to let it be organic. Austin was an organic choice they let happen because they were in a desperate situation.

Is "let the masses choose" correct? Or is that a recipe for chaos?
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Old 07-06-2017, 04:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maluco View Post
I get what you are saying Destor, but is people like me losing interest and not watching, really being worked?

At what point does it stop being a work to generate interest and when does it start being them shooting themselves in the foot?

Also, for those on the other side, how do you book a top face in 2017?

I feel like the answer is, to let it be organic. Austin was an organic choice they let happen because they were in a desperate situation.

Is "let the masses choose" correct? Or is that a recipe for chaos?
Its the only option. While the following statement will be met with rejection it is what happend: The crowd (IE all of you) chose Reigns. After that office back them they turned on him. It was only cool to like reigns until our parents liked him too. Nothing about him changed, they turned on him because they listended to their audience. They'll do the same to the next guy just like they did Cena before him.


Wrestling fans are douchey hipsters.
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Old 07-06-2017, 04:13 PM   #25
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If by "let the masses choose", you mean base it solely on crowd reactions, then yes, I'd say that's a recipe for disaster. There has to be come foresight involved. There isn't just one way to book a top face.

I mentioned earlier how The Rock was getting shit on as a face when he was winding down as a full-timer. Over-exposure and bad booking can play a part in fucking it up. If a guys' character is that he's a big shit-talker and he constantly fails to back it up, it makes his character unlikable. Not a good thing for a top face. They did that CONSTANTLY with The Rock. He jobbed left and right in a way that Hogan and Austin before him rarely ever did. And his character, despite being arguably the most charismatic guy wrestling has ever seen, stopped working as a top face.

Same happened with Cena. I think the "face in peril" works for a little guy like Daniel Bryan. They try to use the same template for every face though and it's just really dumb. Different guys with different body types and different personalities need to be booked differently.
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Old 07-06-2017, 04:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Its the only option. While the following statement will be met with rejection it is what happend: The crowd (IE all of you) chose Reigns. After that office back them they turned on him. It was only cool to like reigns until our parents liked him too. Nothing about him changed, they turned on him because they listended to their audience. They'll do the same to the next guy just like they did Cena before him.


Wrestling fans are douchey hipsters.
... You know that part in bold is not true...
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Old 07-06-2017, 04:15 PM   #27
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I believe it to be true yes.
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Old 07-06-2017, 04:17 PM   #28
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Well, first off, he left The Shield. Ambrose and Rollins were there as his mouthpiece and to let him just be the "muscle" and not get over-exposed. You don't think that was one major change?
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Old 07-06-2017, 04:18 PM   #29
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I do not.
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Old 07-06-2017, 04:20 PM   #30
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You don't see how people could have loved him as one-third of The Shield with Ambrose and Rollins and then not cared for him as a top guy having to work entire matches all on his own and cut his own promos other than "the company started backing him"?
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Old 07-06-2017, 04:59 PM   #31
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It's everything about him. The Shield split up anh he is still basically in The Shield
Same look and same music hell for a while he had the same entrance.

He's.....decent in the ring but hes mostly about Superman punches

He gets destroyed by Braun and it does not effect him or his ability to wi matches.

Not only James Ellsworth is more over than Roman Reigns(as a face and a heel) he is MILES ahead of him on the mic.

They claim its okay as long as people react to him but they make an effort to make excuses for the boos and even go so far as to make them less audible.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:02 PM   #32
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They also just booked him badly. Just cuz the machine is behind you doesnt mean it needs to be blatant. His push was akin to Diesels failed push. Fans liked him because he was an asskicker not because he overcomes the odds.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:04 PM   #33
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I will argue he is a main event talent. He is just a badly written, poorly booked main event talent.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:11 PM   #34
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Even on the highlights for PPV's, I take a piss break when it comes to him speaking. There is just nothing interesting about him.

I only carry the network sub b/c my in-laws and son still eat up the programming each week. They enjoy watching PPV's and the product.

"Believe that, good/bad/the guy, and my yard" are so fucking lame and ZzzZZZzzzzzZZZZzzz.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:30 PM   #35
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Imo the excuse destor is making is the cop out most wrestlers make for the E who wanna kiss vinces ass so they may get a job down the line or protect their job.

Fans arent THAT hard to please. But if you give them lame, inorganic bullshit, they wont buy it. The Shield while not world champions were pushed very hard and treated like a big deal. It was apparent early that they were being protected, but people liked them because they were delivering. They were a violent pack of dogs who talked only when nec. And not about gaga and bullshit. They were focused and felt real. And they werent underdogs, they were asskickers.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:31 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Fans liked him because he was an asskicker not because he overcomes the odds.
YES. I mean... there's also, the fact that he never had to touch a mic or work a full match and expose huge flaws in those areas... but his horrible, lazy, paint-by-numbers-babyface booking as a singles star is also a HUGE part of it. The idea that NOTHING CHANGED and people just decided to start hating him simply because the company pushed him as "the guy" is just silly. Between that idea and the idea that people hating him as a face is actually a good thing, WWE is trying REALLY hard to get this Kool-Aid over that prevents them from actually having to book compelling characters ever again.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:34 PM   #37
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Most things about wwe are buzzwords and nobody on the talent roster from wrestlers to personalities to commentators aside from maybe Kevin Owens and Chris Jericho talk like real people talk. Roman falls into this category. Its part of why he doesnt get cheered. For such a marketing based company youd think theyd know the one no no of good marketing is inauthentic shitty buzzwords and unnatural dialogue with your target.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:39 PM   #38
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One reason why scripted promos are arguably the worst thing to happen to wrestling.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:41 PM   #39
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Well i mean i wont damn scripted promos completely. Certain guys could obvs just use bullet points but we wouldnt complain about scripting if the writers could y'know... Actually fucking write.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:42 PM   #40
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Or if some wrestlers took time to add more input
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