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Old 03-10-2017, 10:56 AM   #41
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If they really had a keen eye for talent, Johnny Curtis would be in the midst of breaking Bruno's title reign record right now, Goddammit.
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Old 03-10-2017, 10:56 AM   #42
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they fill the gap "less" but it becomes less important they are stars of THAT magnitude as it becomes more and more about the brand.

I'm trying to think of a good metaphor for this but the words escape me as it remains on the tip of my tongue. The best I can say is it's like they're grandfathering in the branding with diminishing star power of nostalgia acts.

But then also, what the fuck do I know? They'll probably march Taker out there when he's 85-years-old to wrestle Seth Rollins when he's 45 due to lack of star power.
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Old 03-10-2017, 10:59 AM   #43
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It's like right now The brand WWE scores a 20 in draw power, the nostalgia act is a 60.

Then with Cena maybe it's nostalgia act 50 vs brand appeal 30 then with Orton 40-30

Okay this is awful but it's the best I can do
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:00 AM   #44
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Rollins is the next mega star.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:02 AM   #45
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clearly you've never seen him cut a promo
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:10 AM   #46
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Rollins is the next mega star.
Rollins is a flash in the pan. His body isnt going to hold up.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:23 AM   #47
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Reigns is probably the next "mega star". They're just gonna push the issue in the same manner they did with Cena when they crowd turned on him. Unfortunately Reigns has a fraction of the talent, charisma and mainstream appeal as Cena so... not good.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:23 AM   #48
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Rollins is the Daniel Bryan of wrestling.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:24 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Reigns is probably the next "mega star". They're just gonna push the issue in the same manner they did with Cena when they crowd turned on him. Unfortunately Reigns has a fraction of the talent, charisma and mainstream appeal as Cena so... not good.
Which is why I don't watch Raw.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:30 AM   #50
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I don't get not turning Reigns heel. I mean heel in the classic sense not how he already is heel.

So I guess turn him face lol
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:36 AM   #51
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Quote:
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I don't get not turning Reigns heel. I mean heel in the classic sense not how he already is heel.

So I guess turn him face lol
That would just flip whihc % boos and which cheers. Nothing would change.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:41 AM   #52
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It'd be considerably better tv. He'd fit the role more.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:42 AM   #53
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Debatable. Smarks dont buy near as much merch as marks.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:43 AM   #54
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(if you did the product would completely geared to you)
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:44 AM   #55
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that doesn't mean better t.v.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:45 AM   #56
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It just means more money
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:45 AM   #57
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Which is the point of the whole thing
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:49 AM   #58
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You could argue, Roman getting over with the smarks a la new day or D Bry or Punk could boost his merch sales past just selling to markass bitches.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:49 AM   #59
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Since smarks will by your merch if you're a gangster ass mofo
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:51 AM   #60
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Quote:
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Since smarks will by your merch if you're a gangster ass mofo
That doesnt hold up though. Makrs spend more on merch. The guys who have gotten over with both can sell to both sides of the isle but as stated you are turned Reigns "heel" so you're going to lose the marks as a revenue stream for Reigns merch. Turning him would be leaving money on the table.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:52 AM   #61
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Now in the long run it might work a la turning Rocky Miavia; but Rocky was panned by everyone smarks and marks alike.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:52 AM   #62
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(And just like with Cena and Reigns we see now just how wrong they were then)
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:04 PM   #63
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a heel turn I think would long term bring Roman to the next level which is kind of what I'm getting at.

With Cena it would never have worked because he was well past that developmental phase. Reigns is still finding himself as a performer.
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:53 PM   #64
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I've spoken to a couple local indie wrestlers in my city and they all said Roman Reigns is ridiculously popular with kids. Nate Mattson (The Amazing N8) was doing a signing and asked all the kids in line who was their favourite wrestler and they pretty much all said Roman Reigns and it's like that everywhere he goes.
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:54 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
I've spoken to a couple local indie wrestlers in my city and they all said Roman Reigns is ridiculously popular with kids. Nate Mattson (The Amazing N8) was doing a signing and asked all the kids in line who was their favourite wrestler and they pretty much all said Roman Reigns and it's like that everywhere he goes.
100% fact
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:59 PM   #66
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I never doubted that for a second. Kids like WHO YOU TELL THEM TO LIKE. I really dug Duke the Dumpster Drose when I was 8. I liked Virgil when I was 6.

The BIG STAR is the one that everyone likes.
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:00 PM   #67
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I'm not you usual smark dick who thinks Dean Ambrose or Seth Rollins would be a better draw than Reigns. There's TONS of potential in Reigns, but IMO they are not maximizing that potential. He's a very good worker IMO just boring and vanilla
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:00 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
I never doubted that for a second. Kids like WHO YOU TELL THEM TO LIKE. I really dug Duke the Dumpster Drose when I was 8. I liked Virgil when I was 6.

The BIG STAR is the one that everyone likes.
But agian the kids have more $ than anyone else
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:04 PM   #69
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Which is okay short term business wise. But not the best as far as quality and long term drawing potential specifically for Roman.
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:11 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Which is okay short term business wise. But not the best as far as quality and long term drawing potential specifically for Roman.
Long term kids have always been the best investment. We have decades of data showing that.

A short time as a "heel" might win over his detractors allowing for a unified front long term. I cant refute that. It might not and it might just be lost money. Who's to say.

And you still have the new wrinkle to the model that allows having a guy like Roman, the guy backed by the office, that allows undercard guys to get over with the smarks as well.

How much of the undercard are getting over because smarks a rebelling against the compant line? It's Reigns who facilitates that. The crowd being the baby and the office being the heel is a win win in my mind.

You get the merch out of Reigns with the kids and you get the merch out of the smarks and the some of the marks with the IWC darlings.

It's a good model...in theory at least. It's keeping them afloat until someone good comes along.
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:13 PM   #71
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I'm part of a local Wrestling Group on facebook. We go on wrestling road trips (indie and WWE events), attend all the local shows etc... now I know this is a small sample size (there's like 75 of us in the group of 500 who participate in these events) and the smarks are spending their money on indie wrestlers merch, not the WWE. And then there's myself who own a Ravishing Rick Rude shirt a Gorilla Monsoon shirt and an NWO shirt lol
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:12 PM   #72
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I'm part of a local Wrestling Group on facebook. We go on wrestling road trips (indie and WWE events), attend all the local shows etc... now I know this is a small sample size (there's like 75 of us in the group of 500 who participate in these events) and the smarks are spending their money on indie wrestlers merch, not the WWE. And then there's myself who own a Ravishing Rick Rude shirt a Gorilla Monsoon shirt and an NWO shirt lol
nerd
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:14 PM   #73
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Lol oh big time
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:17 PM   #74
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nerd
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:47 PM   #75
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Long term kids have always been the best investment. We have decades of data showing that.

A short time as a "heel" might win over his detractors allowing for a unified front long term. I cant refute that. It might not and it might just be lost money. Who's to say.

And you still have the new wrinkle to the model that allows having a guy like Roman, the guy backed by the office, that allows undercard guys to get over with the smarks as well.

How much of the undercard are getting over because smarks a rebelling against the compant line? It's Reigns who facilitates that. The crowd being the baby and the office being the heel is a win win in my mind.

You get the merch out of Reigns with the kids and you get the merch out of the smarks and the some of the marks with the IWC darlings.

It's a good model...in theory at least. It's keeping them afloat until someone good comes along.
Owens is over and so is Jericho, not because of Roman.

The problem with Cena for instance is he was such a goody goody and had such a hard time that the kids who liked him didn't carry over into being teenagers/young adults.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:25 PM   #76
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I am definitely in the minority here when I say I don't know if the in ring talent is as deep as it has ever been. A lot of the guys on the roster can only seem to follow a scripted match. Here and there you get glimpses of briliance but it is pretty rare. Gone are the days when two guys can get in the ring and just go. HBK is the best ever because he could wrestle anyone, any style and put on a good compelling match; regardless of how much time he has. Y2J is the closest we have now to this, AJ is up there also. What thise guys have in common is they perfected their craft over years in different companies and aren't "wwe trained."
I do like how they have brought in guys who are not wwe styled. I think KO is actually pretty damn good, he has a different style and knows how to sell. A big problem is a lot of the guys who can go aren't very big nor intimidating. When you as a fan feel like you can take someone they have a problem, and right now a lot of their guys look like skinny fat neck beards. A guy like Seth Rollins and Ambrose don't intimidate anybody and even 45 year old HBK looks bigger and more believable. Lesnar and Goldberg are over because you as a fan would not want to fight either of them.

I honestly think the wwe is in rough shape talentwise because they aren't deep with guys who can just go tear the house down. Unless you are Randy Savage and Ricky Steamboat you can't go out and script a masterpiece match and I feel like thats what they are trying to do nowaydays.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:18 PM   #77
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I am definitely in the minority here when I say I don't know if the in ring talent is as deep as it has ever been. A lot of the guys on the roster can only seem to follow a scripted match. Here and there you get glimpses of briliance but it is pretty rare. Gone are the days when two guys can get in the ring and just go.
Main reason is because that is exactly what the WWE now wants when it comes to their roster and the idea almost no one can be bigger than the "brand." Lot easier for them to control the direction of stars and narrative if everything is heavily scripted.

Biggest example in recent times is the Cruisers. Had a lot more freedom to do things with the CWC which made it very entertaining while the division itself has struggled because of how heavy handed Vince and Creative have been with it.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:30 PM   #78
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Main reason is because that is exactly what the WWE now wants when it comes to their roster and the idea almost no one can be bigger than the "brand." Lot easier for them to control the direction of stars and narrative if everything is heavily scripted.

Biggest example in recent times is the Cruisers. Had a lot more freedom to do things with the CWC which made it very entertaining while the division itself has struggled because of how heavy handed Vince and Creative have been with it.
I never watched the CWC and kind of kick myself for all they hype they brought. The CW division is awful, almost unwatchable.
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:26 PM   #79
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In ring work is at a peak for athleticism, but probably at an all time low in terms of psychology and story telling.

Matches that live long in the memory are the ones that told great stories and were unique for their situation.

Everything feels the same nowadays, not because the guys are not fantastic athletes, but because they wrestle the same match and their idea of switching it up is to add another high spot.

Reigns is a bit cardboard, but he is obviously a great athlete. What is not helping Reigns is that he has wrestled Rusev, then Owens/Jericho combos constantly over the last 6 months with little to no change in the story.

He is hardly being given gold to work with.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:02 PM   #80
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They should have never let THE RYBACK go
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