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Old 02-06-2007, 11:36 PM   #41
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Well Eric Bischoff certainly didn't think Steve Williams had any type of future. Neither did ECW (at least seriously), so...
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Old 02-06-2007, 11:50 PM   #42
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Completely different situation.
Steve hadn't been used on any major level and had yet to be given exposure in a memorable gimmick. Steve was floundering, he wasn't peaked.
Batista has already been pushed to the moon and made a name for himself.
Terrible analogy.
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Old 02-07-2007, 12:11 PM   #43
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Orton still has the potential to be huge. He is a good looking guy, works quite well in the ring, gets a reaction from the crowd, and is a former World Champion so the credibility of him being pushed again as the top star wouldn't be too far fetched. However Edge outshines him completely as a heel and whilst those two are on the same roster the chances of Orton being considered great again is unlikely.
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Old 02-07-2007, 12:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by jeritron5000
Completely different situation.
Steve hadn't been used on any major level and had yet to be given exposure in a memorable gimmick. Steve was floundering, he wasn't peaked.
Batista has already been pushed to the moon and made a name for himself.
Terrible analogy.
lol i see where you are going with this. It's not like the guy is Lex Luger '93-'94. Randy CAN be big, and though i would have preferred it during the Evolution gimmick, you have to let the fans dictate his future. Vince obviously didn't see it back then, so he should pay attention NOW. Watch and listen how fans react to Orton. I do think that if it doesn't work within the next 6 months, he will be done. He is one of those guys where you can't force it, let the fans tell you what to do with him.

Damn, that IC reign could have been something for the ages, but can't live on the past...
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Old 02-07-2007, 12:59 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Johnny Vegas
...but can't live on the past...
Sure you can:



WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Old 02-07-2007, 01:43 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Vegas
lol i see where you are going with this. It's not like the guy is Lex Luger '93-'94. Randy CAN be big, and though i would have preferred it during the Evolution gimmick, you have to let the fans dictate his future. Vince obviously didn't see it back then, so he should pay attention NOW. Watch and listen how fans react to Orton. I do think that if it doesn't work within the next 6 months, he will be done. He is one of those guys where you can't force it, let the fans tell you what to do with him.

Damn, that IC reign could have been something for the ages, but can't live on the past...
Yes Orton could have been huge. It would have been great to see him overthrow Triple H as leader of evolution, and with his stable dominate Raw as the IC champion for a while. Make that belt into almost a second title. Then instead of beating Benoit for the belt, had someone else hold the gold in the fall and then put Orton over as a double champion down the road. Triple H comes back, costs him the IC and they start fueding over the World for a few months.
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Old 02-07-2007, 02:33 PM   #47
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Yeah they were hilarious. You should watch wrestling drunk more often.
Dear God, I'm not even gonna touch that one.
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Old 02-07-2007, 02:47 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by jeritron5000
Yes Orton could have been huge. It would have been great to see him overthrow Triple H as leader of evolution, and with his stable dominate Raw as the IC champion for a while. Make that belt into almost a second title. Then instead of beating Benoit for the belt, had someone else hold the gold in the fall and then put Orton over as a double champion down the road. Triple H comes back, costs him the IC and they start fueding over the World for a few months.
See, this is what i don't get from the WWE. Bring what got you to do the dance. Not necessarily the same Two-Step, but something like it with a different outfit. lol nice....anyway, Orton was SOOOO The Rock during his IC run and was set up, imo, BETTER than The Rock. The Rock actually sold himself to stardom. Orton could've, and can still do the same if the writers and Vince listen to the people who make him rich god damn. Sometimes, i think people like Vince, no disrespect, know that they are rich and do shit like this to be arrogant.

I bet if his ass was back in 97 he'd shape the fuck up.
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Old 02-07-2007, 03:24 PM   #49
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Of course, the WWE has wealths of talent and the potential to put on Raws and PPVs better than the attitude era. They just need to be willing to, and it seems like they're not going until they're shoved.
That's why I'm rooting for TNA to bite WWE on the ass. Not because I like TNA or want WWE to fail, but because I want WWE to take the ball and run with it again, even if only for a few years.
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Old 02-08-2007, 06:37 AM   #50
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Yes Orton rules mainly because he is from Missouri.
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Old 02-08-2007, 09:02 AM   #51
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Sometimes, i think people like Vince, no disrespect, know that they are rich and do shit like this to be arrogant.

I think you're correct on that.
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Old 02-08-2007, 10:53 AM   #52
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I don't think he does this to be arrogant.

More this is the end result of thinking he is a business God.

Hey, you ever think JBL pops in? Think he has to make out with Mr. Brown Eye, too?
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:07 AM   #53
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Orton is the man! I love watching his matches. exept when he is tagging.
then again i'm not a fan of Tag matches anyways.
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:12 PM   #54
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I know he may be a dick out of character as well but he does does his in-ring job very well. He sells everything awesomely and integrates alot of psychology into his matches. Easily one of the most convincing workers in WWE at the moment.
He's definitely lasted a long time despite being bad as a face and not good on the mic...but I do like the RKO outta nowhere.
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:44 PM   #55
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Orton has become one of my favorites, almost by default. He just does not give a fuck. I wish he protected himself from shit like the Bray Wyatt stuff a bit more though.
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:51 PM   #56
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I think I might like Orton more if I could get the awful Bray Wyatt feud out of my memory...Bray Wyatt just f'n kills people's heat, just like Dolph Ziggler.
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:55 PM   #57
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Dolph Ziggler sapped Nakamura right away. He did no favors for Corbin or Roode either. He is male Emma.
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:01 PM   #58
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You fucking stop that.
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:02 PM   #59
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Dolph Ziggler sapped Nakamura right away. He did no favors for Corbin or Roode either. He is male Emma.
Fairplay
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:03 PM   #60
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Fairplay
Whoa now, I would never compare him to Jonny Survivor.
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:03 PM   #61
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:11 PM   #62
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Really feel like TNA mishandled Johnny Fairplay.
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:21 PM   #63
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Really feel like TNA mishandled TNA.
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:03 AM   #64
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Orton’s premature face turn in 2004, along with him jobbing to Hunter in the main-event of Wrestlemania (2008?) were the two biggest reasons that Orton never quite got to the next level. His backstage conduct also gave management a red light of sorts, that prevented him from being “the guy.” Having said that, he’s still had a very solid career.
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:12 AM   #65
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They really fucked it so badly with him in 2004. He'd been really coming into his own as a dastardly heel with a several month long feud with Foley that yielded his best performance to date in that brutal street fight at Backlash. I remember I, like probably everyone else, assuming Foley would be the one to go into the tacks since he was wearing a shirt. But then suddenly Orton took a bareback bump into them in only his ring gear and I jumped out of my chair.

I wasn't averse to him being the one to win the belt off of Benoit. But they really didn't need to shoot their load with Evolution turning on him the next night. Triple H could've played nice with him for a while, and gradually seethe that Orton is able to keep winning matches without help, something Triple H himself could never do. Then by the time Hunter finally turned on him it would've had a lot more impact.
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:26 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Orton’s premature face turn in 2004, along with him jobbing to Hunter in the main-event of Wrestlemania (2008?) were the two biggest reasons that Orton never quite got to the next level. His backstage conduct also gave management a red light of sorts, that prevented him from being “the guy.” Having said that, he’s still had a very solid career.
Not meant as a correction but 2009...WrestleMania XXV.
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:32 AM   #67
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When Orton is "on", he's one of the best in the company. When he's not, he's boring as fuck.
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Old 11-23-2017, 03:08 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
Not meant as a correction but 2009...WrestleMania XXV.
Thanks man. My memory of wrestling is pretty foggy after Summerslam 2005 (which is pretty much when I stopped watching WWE programming religiously).
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Old 11-23-2017, 03:13 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
They really fucked it so badly with him in 2004. He'd been really coming into his own as a dastardly heel with a several month long feud with Foley that yielded his best performance to date in that brutal street fight at Backlash. I remember I, like probably everyone else, assuming Foley would be the one to go into the tacks since he was wearing a shirt. But then suddenly Orton took a bareback bump into them in only his ring gear and I jumped out of my chair.

I wasn't averse to him being the one to win the belt off of Benoit. But they really didn't need to shoot their load with Evolution turning on him the next night. Triple H could've played nice with him for a while, and gradually seethe that Orton is able to keep winning matches without help, something Triple H himself could never do. Then by the time Hunter finally turned on him it would've had a lot more impact.
I think with Orton, the WWE got too excited when the fans started cheering his heel character. They turned him way too soon in my opinion.

What they should have done, was have Orton kick Triple H out of Evolution the night after Summerslam.......and have Triple H be the one to turn face. Orton should have been the new leader of Evolution. At Wrestlemania, then you could play out the same scenario where face Batista defeats heel Orton.
Instead, the WWE got too excited with Orton's 'face-like' reactions instead of letting it simmer...............like they did with The Rock back in 1998/1999.

Orton's Team Legacy was also over as hell. If the WWE had allowed Orton to kick Stephanie in the head, and then have him go over Hunter at Mania that year, his heel heat and overness would have been unreal.

Perhaps the WWE took all of this into consideration, but simply felt that Orton wasn't ready to be the man due to his backstage immaturity.
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Old 11-23-2017, 03:15 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
When Orton is "on", he's one of the best in the company. When he's not, he's boring as fuck.
Even as of a few years ago, I thought Orton should have been the one carrying The Smackdown Brand. Have Orton be the 'alpha' of that show and give him lengthy world title reigns as a heel. Have him for a new Evolution or a Legacy.

I'm not sure if the ship has sailed or not, but if Orton still has enough gas in the tank, I say do it.
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:51 PM   #71
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Orton could be such a good heel to the flippy guys. Have him bad-mouth their style and beat all of them.
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:41 PM   #72
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Lazy Orton might be worse than face Orton but usually find him the most interesting whenever he straddles the line between heel and tweener.
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:48 PM   #73
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I think Orton is severely underrated as a babyface. Crowds love him. They know that he knows he's a star. People want to cheer his douchebaggery and random acts of violence. It's just rare they program him properly as a face. When they give him something proper to do, instead of just walking around aimlessly, it usually works. The feud with Christian is a great example.
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:50 PM   #74
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When he went tweener against legacy I was all over it. Fans loved him and I thought it was some of his best work. He should be kept there.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:44 PM   #75
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He was a babyface.
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:27 AM   #76
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But he wasn't. He was playing the same heel, just against heels. No ideawhat his character is now but that was my fave version of Orton
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:02 AM   #77
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I like Orton way better as a heel, and you can tell hes into more into a heel run too
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:30 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I think Orton is severely underrated as a babyface. Crowds love him. They know that he knows he's a star. People want to cheer his douchebaggery and random acts of violence. It's just rare they program him properly as a face.
Pretty much this, and a very big reason why Orton never got to the next level.
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Old 11-26-2017, 02:56 PM   #79
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Old 11-26-2017, 05:05 PM   #80
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But he wasn't. He was playing the same heel, just against heels. No ideawhat his character is now but that was my fave version of Orton
That makes him a babyface. Austin wasn't a heel because he was a disruptive malcontent -- he was a babyface because the crowd loved him. Orton can remain the same character forever and be positioned as a babyface or a heel -- it just depends on whether or not the fans want to cheer him or boo him.

Smiling and kissing babies' heads because "that's what faces do" is what kills a lot of guys' momentum a lot of the time.
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