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Old 09-23-2017, 06:15 PM   #41
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ya i forgot Regal

My appreciation for him as grown so much since i saw that Goldeberg match where he shoot wrestled the entire match and brought a fantastic match out of Goldberg in the process lol.
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Old 09-23-2017, 06:39 PM   #42
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Kennedy...























Kennedy!
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:10 PM   #43
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Oh, fuck yes. Kennedy should have been mentioned way before now.
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:11 PM   #44
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Also, Ryback's initial face run.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:18 PM   #45
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Nexus seems like a good pick.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:18 PM   #46
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Summer of Punk? It started off so hot and seemed to drum up actual interest. Then it turned into a Triple H vs. Kevin Nash feud.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:19 PM   #47
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Regal and Kendrick in 2008 cut me deep at the time.
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:07 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Summer of Punk? It started off so hot and seemed to drum up actual interest. Then it turned into a Triple H vs. Kevin Nash feud.
Another good choice for the top of the list.

I'm starting to think we could easily make a "Top 100 Biggest Letdowns" list just from WWE 2001-today and still have the need for honorable mentions.
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:08 PM   #49
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Another good choice for the top of the list.

I'm starting to think we could easily make a "Top 100 Biggest Letdowns" just from WWE 2001-today and still have the need for honorable mentions.
I like to give you a hard time for being too negative but I think you're understating the let downs.


Realistically we're talking at least 4-5 monthly let downs since 2001.
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:41 PM   #50
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Retroactively I'm trying to remember the last thing the WWE did right that delivered on what it could have. The Daniel Bryan stuff was laced with lots of ill-will and saw the sacrifice of Batista. Speaking of that guy, WrestleMania 21 might have been one of the best builds to an actual main event that they've done this century. Benoit and Eddie winning at Mania XX might have existed in that realm, but coming out of Mania neither was treated particularly well. Still, I guess you can maybe say that? I mean, you can't fault WWE for what would eventually happen.

Maybe some people feel that way about Braun now?
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:05 AM   #51
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Nexus springs to mind immediately for me. When that initial attack happened, it had been the first time in years where I was just standing right in front of my TV just thinking "what the FUCK is going on???" As bad as wrestling had felt, stuff like that was the reason I always wanted to keep watching.

Bryan getting released days later gave me a bad omen, but they wrote him off in a way that set up an eventual return and they gave the group so much steam. Them beating the fuck out of Vince was a personal favorite of mine because I was at that show.

Then of course, SummerSlam they cocked up massively by putting Cena over in classic "overcoming the odds" fashion. EVEN STILL - I think the angle could've been salvaged after SummerSlam.

Wade Barrett had a WWE Title opportunity for winning NXT Season 1. His opportunity was wasted in a multi-man match which just made him look stupid. And then when he got a chance later at Survivor Series he got dropped clean as a whistle with Cena being the ref.

The easy story would've been Barrett winning the belt at Survivor Series with Cena actually showing some inner conflict and helping Barrett win despite it killing him inside. Cena in the Nexus actually lasts a while instead of only a few weeks.

Cena wins the Rumble ("accidentally" eliminating Nexus members in the process), Barrett orders him to go to use his WM shot on the World Heavyweight Title so Nexus can take over SmackDown too. Then you get the whole "Batista turning on Evolution" type moment where Cena's all, nah fuck you, I'm coming for the WWE Title.

Cena wins the title and his freedom at WM 27. The next night they can book Cena vs. Rock like they did in real life if they want......Nexus leave Cena laying and Miz cashes in his MITB or something.

I dunno. Bottom line is they couldn't have fucked up that angle worse than they did.
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:09 AM   #52
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Oh and for the record, while yes Barrett wound up being an injury-prone liability, there was no reason to think this would be the case in 2010/11. He didn't get his first big injury until 2012. Hindsight doesn't change the fact that it was really shit booking.

Speaking of injury, Skip Sheffield would've become a big deal even earlier had he not gotten hurt during Nexus. He looked like a fucking killer during those group beat downs. Granted the name Skip Sheffield was ridiculous and I don't know when they'd change his name to Ryback, but he could've been great as either the "final boss" to get to Barrett or just getting a huge rub as a face when he ends up being the first guy to leave the group on his own accord.
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:11 AM   #53
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Remember those street fighter vignettes they ran for Barrett before his return? He looked badass. I think it was his first match back when he ran away from a fight like a chicken shit heel, going against everything the vignettes hyped him up as. lol
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:06 AM   #54
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Almost every heel ends up being ruined by some sort of chicken-shit makeover.
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Old 09-24-2017, 09:53 AM   #55
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The problem is if heels don't back down they're pretty much just faces. I guess the key is to only have them back down at the right time.
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:30 AM   #56
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It's all in the delivery. I can buy a heel getting the fuck out of there if the face is somebody we're supposed to buy as a serious threat...or a monster type (Kane, Big Show, etc.)

In Barrett's case though......if memory serves he flew out of the ring to run away from R-Truth. No way should a supposedly badass bareknuckle fighter be openly fleeing from R fucking Truth.
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:32 AM   #57
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It wouldn't even have been as egregious had they done the whole "tease a fight only for the heel to back out and say NOT TODAY" deal. At least that's a classic way to get heat, allow the fans to boo the heel for ducking the fight but allow the heel to justify that they're not scared, just being smart and picking their spots. Works especially well when it's a case where you actually would think the heel would kick the face's ass anyway. Neville and Enzo just did that recently.

But no, let's have Barrett legit run away from R-Truth. Terrible.
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:26 PM   #58
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The problem is if heels don't back down they're pretty much just faces. I guess the key is to only have them back down at the right time.
BAD GUYS DON'T BACK DOWN ALL THE TIME IN REAL LIFE. THE TRICK IS NOT TO PUT YOUR HEEL IN A POSITION WHERE THE FANS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO CHEER HIM.

YOU WOULDN'T HAVE 6 FACES BEAT DOWN ONE HEEL BECAUSE IT'D MAKE THEM LOOK SHITTY. I DON'T MIND A HEEL THAT WANTS TO FIGHT.
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:55 PM   #59
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:46 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
The problem is if heels don't back down they're pretty much just faces. I guess the key is to only have them back down at the right time.
Not every heel needs to back down. A monster heel shouldn't be a chicken shit, for example. If he starts backing down, it kinda defeats the purpose of him being a monster. In Barrett's case, he would have been fine as a heel who could back is shit up because of his street fighting background. Just have him be a dick and start shit with the faces. Even have him cheat once in a while because... why the fuck not?
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:51 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
In Barrett's case though......if memory serves he flew out of the ring to run away from R-Truth. No way should a supposedly badass bareknuckle fighter be openly fleeing from R fucking Truth.
Yeah, that was it. Fucking abysmal. lol

How do they not think for a second about the character they've built with those vignettes when they book that on his first night back?
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:52 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Not every heel needs to back down. A monster heel shouldn't be a chicken shit, for example. If he starts backing down, it kinda defeats the purpose of him being a monster. In Barrett's case, he would have been fine as a heel who could back is shit up because of his street fighting background. Just have him be a dick and start shit with the faces. Even have him cheat once in a while because... why the fuck not?
Even Vader backed down at certain points.
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:55 PM   #63
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I'm sure he did at times. Usually when a face was running in with a chair or something. It didn't stop him from becoming a face though. If he was just manning up and showing no fear to Sting, he wouldn't be in danger of turning face.
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:58 PM   #64
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"I'm going to/This monster I'm managing is going to murder your heroes." is more than enough to make a heel without having to have him back down.
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Old 09-24-2017, 03:04 PM   #65
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But as proven by Braun, people just cheer that guy.
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Old 09-24-2017, 03:05 PM   #66
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I agree though.... they can't be standard chicken shits. Or else they're just like everyone else. But there has to be that hell kind of cowardice.
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Old 09-24-2017, 03:06 PM   #67
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But as proven by Braun, people just cheer that guy.
Roman Reigns is not those people's hero...
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Old 09-24-2017, 03:25 PM   #68
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I DON'T WANT TO GET RID OF THE COWARDLY HEEL. I JUST WANT VARIETY.

RAVEN DID A GOOD "COWARD".
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Old 09-24-2017, 05:00 PM   #69
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It really helps if you have babyfaces people believe in. A big problem with keeping these guys heel is that you don't have a hero that you want to see overcome them.
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Old 09-24-2017, 05:06 PM   #70
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It really helps if you have babyfaces people believe in. A big problem with keeping these guys heel is that you don't have a hero that you want to see overcome them.
Reigns could turn BATB '96 Hogan face just by challenging him.
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Old 09-24-2017, 05:18 PM   #71
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Yep.
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Old 09-24-2017, 05:19 PM   #72
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Different times, but Hogan probably would have been cheered if he "turned heel" in the same context today. Reigns would be booed in whatever era.
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Old 09-24-2017, 05:55 PM   #73
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Well I mean did Diesel get booed? Just didn't draw much but he didn't consistently get booed.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:51 PM   #74
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I see Reigns are more of a flop than Diesel, personally. I understand the comparison, but I think Reigns would have gone worse. As presented. There is a bad-ass motherfucker in there, but if he were wearing body armor and being protected like he was the son of the booker, I think he would have been getting more backlash than Hogan was getting circa '96.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:53 PM   #75
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I wouldn't call Reigns a flop just yet.
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:24 PM   #76
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Oh, he'll be a relative star. They're not giving up on him, he's really good, and eventually the product will warp to fit him. His run so far has been though. If you took this Reigns, as he is, back in time it wouldn't work. There's no charisma there to sustain the position.
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Old 09-25-2017, 07:48 PM   #77
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For me as a kid it would either be the Tatanka heel turn, just never made sense.

Or that Razor never won the big one , he just oozed charisma and knew how to work the ring .
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:53 AM   #78
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Mark Henry's fake retirement to ambush Cena. "I GOT A LOT MORE LEFT IN MY TANK!!!"

Soon after, he falls into the rotation of three "proud Americans" that Rusev padded his resume against (the other two being Zack Ryder and Jack Thwagger) and is barely seen on TV.
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:55 AM   #79
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Quote:
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For me as a kid it would either be the Tatanka heel turn, just never made sense.

Or that Razor never won the big one , he just oozed charisma machismo and knew how to work the ring .

fix'd
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:59 AM   #80
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Oh, obvious! When King Hippo went from this badass mound of monsterous "I will destroy your heroes!!!" potential to dressing like 80's LL Cool J and dancing to Ernest "The Cat" Miller's theme song with personal cheerleaders. That's the way to kill a career before it starts.
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