[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by M.V.W. "Innocent until proven guilty" is so commonly misunderstood. It refers to legal innocence, not factual innocence, meaning that gov't has to prove an accused person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Mileage can vary on reasonable doubt but a juror must not convict even if they believe the defendant to be guilty. That's why a person guilty as sin can get acquitted. It is but doesn't cancel out the reality of false accusations being rare.

A crime likely being committed (not specifically referring to this case) does not mean guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And being acquitted doesn't mean that a crime was not committed.

Originally Posted by The Dastardly One My point is proven. Very clear that the allegation alone means Enzo is a rapist to you guys even though he has not been proven guilty.

Absolute bullshit.

Originally Posted by Seph It shouldn't be misunderstood though. The fact that someone can have their livelihood stripped away solely based on accusations, without their guilt ever being proven, well that's just simply appalling to me. Statistics should have no bearing on any of this. This is all on a case by case basis. Who cares if false accusations are rare? Those are other cases that have no relevance to this one. Every one of these situations is unique and to break it down into statistical analysis does all parties involved an injustice. If we keep heading down this road the number of false accusations is liable to start rising exponentially; once people realize they can screw over someone they don't like just by levelling an accusation at them, regardless of the legitimacy of the claim, more and more people will do it purely out of spite.

No one is entitled to a life of fame from the get-go. Enzo was lucky to be where he was in the first place. But he was also in hot water for his general attitude (asshole) and not informing the company of it (boneheaded). Also -- and it's been a while since I've read up on the details of the case -- but I'm fairly certain Enzo does not deny sleeping with the girl in question, and that all accounts had them both as intoxicated off illegal drugs or something like that? In the current PR-hungry world of WWE, that's not going to fly.

He's facing the consequences of his own actions. He's not going to prison for rape, because there is no evidence a rape was committed. But fuck me if he isn't a fucking muppet and I don't feel sorry for him because he lost his job for generally being a trouble magnet.

Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat Not really considering there are organizations that track these stats and reveal why it becomes one of the hardest crimes to get a conviction in court. Besides the circumstances and scrutiny for evidence, attacking the accuser's credibility has been a very proven and effective tactic both in court and public opinion. Those same organizations also come up with the same overall result that the amount of rapes that don't get reported or investigated properly is way, way, way higher than those that do.

There are plenty of metrics to measure this sort of stuff. You aren't just going by trial data and conviction rates. There are medical reports, outcries, psychological studies, sociological studies, organizations that gather reports, even religious confessions. If anything, the number is likely underrepresented.

Originally Posted by The Dastardly One I'm not saying there isn't any merit to this. But it's literally one lens. The attitude of "he was accused therefore he did it" is fucked. He isn't even getting charged anymore because they can't prove anything and y'all are gonna act like he deserves it. I don't like Enzo, but with what we know from the case, nobody can fairly say he deserves to be considered a rapist by anyone.

Your first two lines are on the money. It is only one lens. That is why he is not being charged. Unfortunately, you often get multiple lenses and people still don't get charged. Sometimes things are pretty fucking obvious and people still don't get charged.

No one is saying that because he was accused he did it. It is unlikely that the girl made it up. That's just a fact. Could she have made it up? Sure. But is it likely? No. If it were true, would there be more evidence? Unfortunately, not necessarily. It's a big, dark mess. Does he deserve to be treated like a rapist? No. That's why he's not going to prison.

Originally Posted by Seph How do they have even a count on "rapes that don't get reported"? If they aren't reported then how do they know about them? SO CONFUSING.

Medical reports, counseling sessions, outcries, confessions, studies, etc. I can't believe you don't know women who have been assaulted and never reported it.

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan We're saying "blindly believing all women is a horrible idea" and you're determined to vilify that logic by lumping us in with some internet trolls who say "never believe a woman" as opposed to listening to what we're actually saying. And we're somehow the ones who aren't interested in a productive conversation. You're being insanely dishonest. I agree we'll never come to an understanding because it's obvious from that alone that that isn't your M.O.

Well, when you misrepresent the other side of the argument so grossly as to talk about ghosts and shit, which you admit is "extreme," you make it pretty easy to vilify your logic. How about you listen to what other people are saying?

No one is saying that Enzo definitely did it. What we're saying is that there not being evidence enough to press charges doesn't mean he didn't. Until those charges can be pressed, he is free man though, so good for him.