[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD This whole section is conjecture or 'fan canon'. And that's fine. But my analysis requires no such speculation or reinterpretation of events. I am using the definition of Mary Sue to call a spade a spade. This is more speculation. I do not see what is so difficult about accepting that Rey was written way OP. We know he received training to begin with. I acknowledged these potential disadvantages in my write-up and still conclude beating him so clean is a long shot. Retroactive comparison: Literally everybody hated how Darth Maul was beaten. The backlash was so loud and sustained for years that he was resurrected in the EU and being that Clone Wars is the only surviving SW extended media before the big buyout - he survival is canon. Nobody, absolutely nobody ever, speculated how much training Maul had to lose so stupidly. But here we are entertaining Kylo's shortcomings while dreaming up explanations for Rey's abilities. Me thinks it would be easier to say she was an OP character. 'Force weakened'? What is that, what are you saying here? Conjecture, conjecture, speculation, theories, etc. This is hilariously absurd spin control. And Anakin was a full blown slave. Still wasn't as OP as Rey in any movie. This is possible. But to speculate this is to accept that she is indeed a Mary Sue; we're just adding 'by design'. And I'm open to that, it's just the wacky attempts at rejecting premise one. I have already entertained these traits. He should not lose clean to somebody who picked up a lightsaber that same day. Whoa whoa, hold the presses. Wasn't anybody talking about bad or good. This is why I prefaced all of that text with how much I like Rey, action girls in general, and don't even mind Mary Sue type characters. I am not slamming Rey or the movie. Technically speaking, with the established 'rules' of the SW universe, with past and current characters to compare to, with the established definition of Mary Sue characters - I am saying objectively that Rey is a Mary Sue. Just like Neo. Just like Batman. Just like Alice from the RE movies. This is not 'bad'. It is what it is.

Yeah I was just making general statements about some stuff I've seen in this thread, I don't really care about what you think about Star Wars.