[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Well you could say that about any upper midcarder from that time. There were way more people watching wrestling in general. Benoit was never a focal point while business was booming though. He was a side attraction. Not the guy you depend on to sell tickets. Like I said, Batista wasn't a huge star either but when put in the exact same position a year apart, Benoit brought business down and then Batista brought it back up.

What you're saying is strictly true, but I just want to challenge perspective on it a bit:

* In 1995 Benoit was part of the classic Super Juniors tournament, which will live on in history as a high point in a very shitty year, and an event that changed the direction of wrestling. From that moment on, smaller guys had a place in the business as attractions. "Side attractions?" Sure. I'll hear that, but when it came to ordering a PPV, you might look at the main event and think "Hmm, maybe," but then you'd see a Benoit vs. someone match and think "That might be worth it," and it's the garnish on the steak in a way that actually helps sell. In my opinion. You can disagree with that, and it's hard to prove, per se.

* In 1996, Benoit and Sullivan had that great match around the time the nWo were coming up. WCW was the nWo angle and then you had some great wrestling to supplement it. Extremely important, and Benoit was crucial to that; not just specifically a benefactor of wrestling getting hot. You had hot wrestling, and then you had Benoit helping to help keep those eyeballs hooked.

* Benoit was an important player in WCW. There was a definite ceiling imposed, but he even got to the World Title. He was this feeling of "potential" that was always there and helped get past some of the turgid shit. He did some great stuff with Saturn, Raven, the Horsemen, etc. Not A1 level stuff, but arguably significant. He was a talking point for anyone watching wrestling. He wasn't just a "good little hand."

* When the Radicalz jumped in 2000, people forget how important Benoit was in there. Triple H was obviously the top heel, and he wasn't letting that spot go, but Benoit helped contribute to same insanely hot stuff on Raw, during the WWF's best year, and he was in a few PPV main events that did quite well that year. Rock vs. Benoit at Fully Loaded drew about as much as the Rock/Hunter Iron Man Match did. Granted, Fully Loaded was kind of a "three-pronged" show with Taker/Angle and Triple H/Jericho too, but this idea that it was all Rock and Triple H is a bit of a WWE revisionist myth. Benoit was in the Unforgiven main against Rock, Undertaker and Kane too, and that got over 600,000 buys, which is phenomenal for a PPV of that stature. Yeah, Triple H/Angle was a big program for that too (and burst the bubble a bit with the disappointing ending), but Benoit was up there in the upper mid-card/main event delivering in spades. Rock was obviously 2000 MVP, and you also had Cactus Jack, Triple H, Undertaker's return, Austin's presence looming, Jericho and the rise of Angle, the crazy Ladder Match triangles and even Rikishi being fun. But Benoit is kind of unfairly left out at as a significant player in 2000. Truthfully, probably the most "underrated" guy in 2000, just based on what he actually did, how effective it actually was, and how it's remembered as mid-card stuff when it really wasn't, by and large.

* Benoit/Angle was such a great WWE Title match at the 2003 Royal Rumble, and while it's obviously the Rumble, and the title match "doesn't matter," the match itself was phenomenal and changed the perspective on Benoit. He went from being potential to being a guy that everybody wanted to root for. After Raw had had a turgid year, eyes were on SmackDown, and the show got 585,000 buys, which was lower than the previous two years, but actually better than the 2000 Rumble, and marginally better than the one Batista won.

* Yes, you get to WrestleMania XX vs. WrestleMania 21 and the Backlash PPVs, and you've got a direct comparison that favors Batista. I'm not going to argue against that. But also consider the feeling of each Mania. Yes, XX was "special," and did have huge matches, but going into WrestleMania 21, things felt more "positive." There were obviously going to be crowning moments. The end of Triple H, the rise of Cena, the Money in the Bank had me excited (which Benoit was part of), and Michaels/Angle was so much fucking fun and shat on the build for anything heading into WrestleMania XX. The build for Mania 21 was just way better, in my opinion. Even the promotion for 21 felt "energized." XX was "the 20th WrestleMania." Oh, and here are some big matches, but they've been quite haphazardly thrown together, and also Brock and Goldberg are both probably leaving. Am I making excuses? Yes. But there was definitely a different feeling going in to WrestleMania XX than there was WrestleMania 21. One felt like things would emerge from it, whereas the other felt like things were wrapping up, in a sense.

* When it comes to the Backlash stuff, one was Batista vs. Triple H, in a follow-up grudge fight to a cathartic changing of the guard, and the other one was Benoit vs. Kane in the semi-main. Just throwing that out there.

Batista is definitely a success. This is actually a toughie. I was as excited as anybody about him kicking Triple H's ass at Mania 21. I was worried that he wouldn't have legs, and he did get stale, but he was a top guy for as long as he was around, and did spend several years at the top. Not all of them raging successes, but easily up there with Cena in terms of his importance. He was the A2 guy. That's a great position and when he turned heel, it reinvigorated him just as he was leaving. Maybe he could have done even more? A few more years at the top holding fort and there might be more stats to support him. But I think for him to beat Benoit, those spikes need to be much higher. He's not exactly Goldberg doing 9.buttfuck ratings and drawing massive PPVs when no one else could. He was just a WWE style guy that got a good push, it worked, he was a player, then he went away.

Now, if Batista came back for that speculated full-time run? Given his position in Hollywood now and the fact that it'd be nice to have a fucking man in the house, I can see him actually being hot. Like, he immediately jumps into that league with Brock, Cena and Reigns of guys that people are actually paying attention to in the casual sense. With the right push against the right opponent, him busting his ass, a successful title reign that helps things feel credible and fresh? Those are more achievements into the portfolio that strengthen an already great case for Batista. But there are two ways of looking at it right now:

1. Batista was a legit WWE main eventer, and whenever that happens, no matter how slumped business is, you've got consider those points ahead and he was a "star," whereas Benoit was a mid-carder who got the belt and it didn't exactly work out.

2. Benoit actually had a very significant mainstream North American wrestling career where he mattered far more than a lot of people, looking to protect their own significance and ego, give him credit for, and while he was never the A1 guy, and maybe couldn't have ever been, was far more important in the overall presentation and success of WCW during its upswell and the WWF during its hottest year. Luck? Could anyone have done? Probably not, really, because Benoit was actually a really, really great professional wrestler, and someone that helped bounce out the entire product by being pavlova while everyone else was steak.

When it comes to "Better Wrestler," I think that drawing power is absolutely crucial. But Benoit's New Japan stuff is going to have significance 50 years from now, whereas Batista's WrestleMania 21 win might even be seen as trivial. Benoit had a long career of not just being a good mid-card wrestler, but arguably the best technical wrestler in the world and someone that you always had to keep an eye on because he could change the game at any point in time. I think "Better Wrestler" is subjective enough to take that potential, history and perspective into equation.

I'm not just saying Benoit because his matches were more to my cup of tea and he was around for a long time and got the World Title twice and that closes enough of a gap with a real star. I'm saying that Benoit was really a generation's star through performance. And ultimately, when I'm deciding this thing, I look at who I would rather want on my roster. And when it comes to a choice between Hulk Hogan and Chris Benoit, I obviously go Hogan, because I want money and attention. But when it comes to Batista and Benoit? I'm seriously thinking I'd go with Benoit, because he's not going to get me more attention than Batista out the gate, per se, but I'm going to choose other powerhouses or draws over Batista, for example (say, Brock, Cena, Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc.), so Batista's not the best in that role anyway, so I'm really casting an A2 or B1 role, and I'm going Benoit in that position, because of his skill, legacy, history, and proficiency in that station.