Yeah silent power hoises have never worked amirite

(Not that its even relevent mind you having a manager cant be spun as a negitive no matter how bad you want it to be)

Not saying he would not have been good or great still but Brock has/had serious help getting over.

Everyone has.

If you say so. Don't remember Cena having someone needing to speak for him constantly. Or Angle. Or, well you get the point.

Lesnar did fine when he didn't have Heyman.

Speakkng =/= getting you over. Dunno what youre on about.

Then you have not been following. Sorry.

If anything, some guys talk too much these days.

I'd prefer is my fearsome monster heel didn't do much talking tbh

Vince has this fetish with EVERYONE having to talk and it's just fucking retarded. Brock gets over without talking.

Calling Brock Lesnar lazy seems a bit much. Also the idea that he never gave a fuck about wrestling seems unfounded in reality. As does the idea that Brock was Brock before Heyman.

I read an interview with Heyman some years back about how their friendship began. How Brock came from a very humble place and was openly looking to be mentored. A guy with his physique and athletic talent had great odds regardless, but look at what happened to Goldberg and Giant in WCW.

Brock had one of the best rookie years I've seen and not because he won, but because of the level he was performing at and the sheer amount of work he put in to be seen as legitimate. He's genuinely the biggest thing in wrestling for the foreseeable future too.

As for Rey, still an amazing talent and athlete who made me care in the ring. I also really enjoyed his recent work in Lucha Underground. His appeal and Legendary status in Mexico also counts for a lot. I could totally go either way and justify my vote.

I have to go with guy whose matches I like more right now and that's Rey.

Because Heyman mentored him ever since they met.

Yeah Idk what everyone's thinking but I think Lesnar himself is hilarious on the mic. Very similar to Scott Steiner.

I don't see why Brock being mentored by Heyman is a bad thing. Rey had mentors and people to bring out the best in him too. That's kind of what wrestling is.

Yeah, literally everyone is helped along by someone. From the agents who put the matches together, to the booker who form the angle, to the vets taking young guys under their wings, to workers covering up their weaknesses in the ring or managers doing the same on the mic.

Its all the same.

Mentors and on air managers are two different things. No id3a why you can't grasp that but okay.

Managers arent negitives, i dont know why you cant grasp that but ok

Brock would have been big in Japan without Heyman.

47% certain.

I think what Ruien is trying to say is that Brock needing a manager somehow betrays a deficiency. Is that correct? Like, I think you're trying to say that Brock didn't have mic skills and only got over because of Heyman, whereas Rey doesn't have mic skills but still got over, meaning that Rey > Brock?

I don't agree, but I am just trying to follow your logic. I think mic skills are only part of the puzzle, just like your technical ability is only part of it too. I think disqualifying Brock based on Heyman being useful at the start and now is a bit silly. Brock didn't even have Heyman for most of that first run.

Yeah, it's a bit of a silly point.

You are talking about 2 legends. Of course you will nit pick small points.

Also, 1 match has very little correlation to a wrestlers entire career Destor.

Theres a fuck ton of workers who had managers. Id rather here why you think it matters. You might be the first person in the history of ever to argue this

A wrestler who NEEDS a manager to get over typically lacks mic skills. This was the propelling point for Brock. Would he still have been great? Probably. But he needed Heyman to get to that level of superstardom.

If you think Brock is amazing on the mic then good for you.

Can elaborate on how needed the mic to get over? Or are you contending thay without mic work ome can not get over? If so what is your case for mysterio?

Because I don't feel that he would have? I don't have a different universe to compare it my feelings to. Sorry.

And yes, Braun is currently over without mic skills. Not saying it is impossible. But to hit legend status? There is a huge difference between being over and being a legend. As I said a couple post up, we are talking about legends here.

Mysterio spent the bulk of his career mute and neber once cut a memorable promk. Its invalid for this particular contest at the least

Destor, I deeply apologize that you do not agree with my vote and reason.

Its a discussion forum chief

The whole point is to have pointless debates

Fuck all of you. Taz never should have lost.

I STAND WITH SWISS

How long ago were the previous better wrestler polls?

I think they started in 07 maybe and ended kn 2012ish

Thats off the top of my head

Takes a bit to get 16 HoFers. Course its slower at first with strong names in the pool to take out other strong names. As the get retired into the Hall though there at the end its easier to go in.

CM Punk originally beat a shit-ton of people apparently.

Yeah i think he had 4 attempts. Lost twice as a challenger, went to a HoF round and lost and then finally went into the HoF... i dont expect him to go in this time...