That's actually a fair point, and I actually think Cornette will take the same line. He'll likely just be disappointed at the lameness. I don't even agree, I was just bringing it up as a talking point. If you go back to my initial post, you can see that I wasn't committed to the idea. It was just something I was interested to hear people's thoughts on.

Ha, I won't argue that point much at all. Well, I might put them on par.

I don't agree with this. From what I've seen watching wrestling has become somewhat normalized because everyone's worked out that it's really not that different from any other show. If anything, I think the success of The Rock and Batista in the film industry has opened some eyes to the fact that it's a legitimate platform for people to perform in and potentially brand into other areas of the entertainment realm. If Cena's movie career takes off, and he's a charismatic enough guy that I think it will, that will only strengthen the position. Wrestling isn't stigmatized by the mainstream anymore.

Even my dad, who spent years upon years asking "when are you going to grow out of that stupid wrestling stuff?" stopped asking because he's finally realized it's just like having a devotion to any other TV show. Hell I've even shown him a few things when in years past he'd have never given it a chance. I showed him some serious, some funny, some just plain wacky. You know what stuff captured his interest most? Lucha Underground and The Final Deletion.

None of my friends who gave up on wrestling in the early 2000s give me any sort of shit about still watching. If anything, they've given me props and seem genuinely interested when I tell them about some of the stuff I've seen.

Also,

This is precisely what I'd tell any wrestling fan worried that they're going to be viewed as uncool for watching it. It's not stigmatized anymore and anyone who thinks it is is probably a tryhard alpha male cunt anyway.

It's definitely still stigmatized for a lot of people. Maybe not for being fake but for being a retarded form of entertainment for stupid, easily entertained people. I don't think The Rock was enough to shake that stigma for the rest of time. If they watched an episode of Raw it would probably just strengthen that point. I guess the dick spot would be better in some ways because at least it clearly isn't trying like WWE is.

The dick spot is better than 70 per cent of raw cuz at least its over. Not saying much but its tru. Its damn tru.

Why would anyone actually care if Cornette isn't going to like them doing a spot? Why would Mick Foley or Cody Rhodes or Ciampa or Jushin Thunder Liger ever realistically sit there and think "I'd better not do that, Cornette wont like it"? He's not important.

Well of all the people who state their opinions of stuff in wrestling that they find to be shitty online, he seems to be the one who gets the most attention. He must be doing something right.

appealing to people who still wish it was 1983?

Wrestling is def still stigmatized and saying any different is just crazy

It is still stigmatized. And I still don't give a fuck.

Haters gonna hate. Do you.

Most of his gripes with wrestling revolve around a lack of logic. If logic is a 1983 trait specifically, we're at a pretty sad point.

Agreed x2

Cornette helped Foley out tremendously in WCW, and the two worked together quite closely in the WWF. You don't like him, but that's got nothing to do with the relationships he has fostered in professional wrestling over his career.

This. Of all the straw-man lobbed Cornette's way, this is the most basic and inane. He's often called an old man yelling at clouds, but he's more like Frank Grimes pointing out how insane Springfield is. To the people who throw that regurgitated complaint at Cornette, I always just think "You think he's out of touch, but you can't even read what he's actually saying? Who is really the one not keeping up here?"

Yeah, I'm glad other people have jumped in and said this, so it doesn't look like I simply dismissing Vito out of contrarianism.

Cornette is the most successful podcaster IMO. Numbers aside. He's managed to keep himself relevant in wrestling because of it.

But a lot of the time he's wrong. Particularly when it comes to anything Kenny Omega does lol

Sorry but I'm still not seeing where this massive stigmatization of wrestling is in 2017. I'm really not. There used to be a time in post-Attitude Era where the slightest mention of wrestling in school got most of the room to stick their noses up and act like wrestling was for little kids. And that was well before the WWE product became PG.

In adulthood, most people who aren't wankers don't give a shit about what other people watch. When you see an ad for a movie you think looks bad - is your first thought "I'll pass on that one" or do you think "Who in their right mind would see that?" If it's the latter, you're probably an asshole.

If anybody did give you shit for watching, Fignuts' "who gives a fuck" approach is the right one. Watching something and acting like you're supposed to be ashamed for liking it is a hell of a lot more off-putting to me than watching something and just saying "yeah, I like this. So what?"

But I've not seen anybody give someone else shit for liking wrestling in a long time. Hell I've seen wrestling fans give other wrestling fans shit for liking comedy wrestling or whatever a lot more than I've seen non-fans care what a fan watches.

This is pretty much what I view as the video game equivalent for anybody who gives someone shit for liking wrestling or liking a certain form of wrestling.

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/rock_band.png

Yeah, the only stigma I see is attached to all soap operas. Just watching trash TV in general and wrestling will never be more than that.

You guys clearly dont interact with casual and non fans very much then. Its a topic so cut and dry its really not worth the effort to have it. It exist. You are somehow oblivious to it. Its "pretty weird." The end.

I do every day at work and hell, even wear some wrasslin' shirts now and again. Maybe it's just different here.

Its similar stigma to watching reality tv. Just considered a cheap guilty pleasure or trash tv. If youre a hardcore fanboy people will think yr weird but that goes for fanboys of everything.

Wwe is trash tv tho so people arent wrong to wonder why we watch. It certainly poisons the well for roh and njpw

Same here. Hence, I don't view it as an actual stigma. Only blowhards would think less of somebody because they watched something they didn't. Nobody who is worth anything would actually care about what you watch or what you choose to do with your spare time.

Well, unless you diddle kids. Fuck you if you diddle kids. Looking at you Zeeboe.

Yeah, that's what I mean. I mean, you're basically watching simulated fight scenes tied together with a very loose story. It's not a huge stigma, it's just something that puts you in the same camp as people talking about Big Brother or Hollyoaks or whatever.

I'd say that NJPW and ROH would still be trash TV too, even if it's better. I don't think wrestling can ever be anything but that level.

Presentation is everything. If a more serious product was prevalent, people may not look at it like it was the godfather but more like a high octane action movie.

But you also have to undo old interpretations going back to the original Wrestlemania. So not only do you need a product like that, but enough people watching it and for it to stay that high quality for many years. Sure, it's possible, but very difficult to attain and would likely need to be of a higher quality in all aspects than ROH or NJPW are.

I know im.just saying IF that was prevalent peoples perception would be different. But wwe is to wrestling as kleenex is to tissues.

Vito, just because you personally don't experience it, doesn't mean it's not there.

And I still think people are overstating the extent to which it may exist. I understand people who just kinda throw it into the trash TV category - but I don't think people actively stick their nose up at it like they once did. Especially not when like 80% of stuff that comes out could be considered trash TV/guilty pleasure nowadays.

We live in a world where the Emoji Movie just came out. Wrestling ain't that bad.

I think he's harsh on Omega, but I don't think he's wrong, per se. Omega is extremely overrated.

Look, we love wrestling. That's why we're here. We obviously don't care about the stigma to let it deter us, but it's definitely there. You said it yourself: "Trash TV." It's considered trash, regardless of whether or not you think it's trash, or I think it's trash.

And yeah, it's similar to reality TV, except I'd say possibly worse. People accept that people like to look down at the fools who go onto those shows. Wrestling's not that lofty.

I def. think wrestling is stigmatized by the "media" and advertisers, but outside of that, i think most people in general don't really give a shit.

Wrestling is becoming more and more accepted by media because the people in media now were wrestling fans as kids. Look at ESPN. 10-15 years ago there's no WAY the WWE would have gotten on that network.

Are you flirting with me?

Raw is the most watched cable show on Monday nights. Dickspot is only over by a small amount of a paying audience. Others are just on-lookers like a trainwreck or some sort of accident.

Still more over than most of raw.

But does that mean Foley is supposed to weigh up "Is Jim Cornette going to like this?" before he does anything?

No.

Your terrible explanation doesnt change anything. Ryan gets a reaction. Raw is silent and pops worse ratings than the darkest days of wrestling.