How do you feel about Cena?
 

Not a big fan of his wrestling persona, really. But the guy seems like a really cool dude. Watched his interviews, his mad lib theater on Kimmel, dude is just so down to earth. I would grab a beer with him the first chance I got.

John Cena. Jesus Christ. JC. Can't see either of them. You get it? He's our fucking lord and savior. WWJCD? Be the motherfucking lord and savior, that's what.

Plus of all , he is good for the company. I realize a lot of people dislike him, but he draws. And the fact he's such a likable person makes it for me.

His matches are the only ones that seem to really mean anything anymore. He might be the GOAT, for real.

Untouchable on the mic too.

His ass kicking at SummerSlam 2014 was a huge catharsis. His expanding Hollywood presence makes him a legitimate star, and he's going to outgrow the WWE just as he actually enters "living legend, respect mode." I don't even want to see him turn heel anymore.

As much as people might hate him, there's no denying he's the Hogan of our era. Sure, the guy might not draw AS MUCH but still. The biggest star. But the fact is - I don't watch a lot these days, since they no longer show it on TV here and watching on youtube is just not the same, but I really did my homework on him and watched a lot of interviews and whatnot. You can just tell he loves the company which might be why Vince used to have that boner for him.

Also, the number of Cena matches I would go back and watch now is WAY higher than the same stat for Hogan.

Correct. I used to be a Hogan mark, but his matches usually sucked.

Everything that is allowed to get stale in wrestling, does. And this was the case with Cena too. Nothing ever changed for a solid decade and it became mind numbing at times.

Brock beating and US title stuff allowed fans to see him in a new light and appreciate him. I don't think he is anywhere close to GOAT, but he is a very versatile performer and extremely hard-working.

He was very much the chosen one though and I think people forget how stale it got with him on top and the never changing landscape.

Cena's incredible. The hate he got for a decade plus is justified because of the combination of over-exposure and horrible, bland booking. But the man himself is just a prototypical wrestling mega star.

I loved it when he went after the US title. His status made the title legit as it was put on kind of jobbers before and lost all the meaning.

Yeah, Cena made the title look meaningful as fuck. It was weird having your top guy as the midcard champion and a much less over guy as world champion but it at least brought the title up.

Of course, like 2 months after he lost it, it was around Kalisto's waist...

Oh fuck, did not know that.

My favorite part of cenas career is after being shit on for a decade he changed nothing and got over with those who formerly shit on him.

Hm, I don't remember if I ever shat on him, but as I mentioned, not really a fan of his in-ring persona. It's the other shit that makes me like him.

Cena is pretty much a perfect example of the wwe basically doing whats best for their bank balance and not caring if the overwhelming majority of the audience is booing him out of the building for a decade. So much for them "listening to the fans", he probably could have had a more interesting career if his character had became a heel during the last 5 or 6 years, but nope. Just remained generic "good guy" with the exception of the odd promo now and again.

A missed opportunity imo, as a heel in the early 2000's he was a pretty interesting character, but once he went "good guy" and merchandise sales started to soar he was just locked into that. Cena turning heel after years of being the ultimate good guy could have been a big a turn as Hogan turning at BOTB, but Vince "the visionary, the genius" never had this thought cross his mind and instead decided to milk the merchandise sales for all they were worth.

tl:dr

Theyre dumb, im smart. Them wanting money was a mistake.

If that's too long for you then your attention span must be pretty short. And obviously seeing the possible bigger picture is an issue for you.

If you still look back and think youre right about them needing to turn him you dont know shit about shit. Cena merch money is the only thing that kept them going amd to throw that way so the cool kids would like him (lol @ turning him heel so people would like him btw) is moronic and is a fine example as to why youre better off watching from your couch.

And you honestly think in the 2000's they were so bad off in terms of money just after the boom of the attitude era that cena's merchandise money is the only thing that kept them going? I think you'll find financially they were very well off after the attitude era, they also went public with shares which also helped bolster the company. This wasn't the down period where they were actually taking bottled water dispensers out of titan towers to save money, this was after the period that legitimately made Vince a billionaire so i don't know where you're pulling this "merch money floated the company" bollocks from.

Think you need to look into the mirror to see someone who "doesn't know shit about shit". But feel free to believe whatever fairy tale you come up with next.

YOU COULD argue a heel turn could have given Cena a little more colour and when he turned face again he coulda sold more merch.

But realistically whether he turned or not would have made no difference. Not like there was any heir apparent ready to be #1 face...or at least anyone they had earmarked other than maybe Lashley and that never would have worked.

Turning Cena heel would have been cool for shock value and then after a month or so everyone who was clamoring for it would have been like "Wait. It wasn't that Cena needed to turn heel. It's that WWE booking is paint-by-numbers regardless of disposition.

As a face, he never needed to be booked with any real substance because kids are stupid. So they could take the easy way. As a heel, they'd be lazy with it and he'd end up not being any better as a character eventually.

Agreed 100% @Fan

They are a business. Of course they are going to do what's best for their bank balence. What are they supposed to do?

Something to be said for putting on quality television instead of pinning your hopes to one star. The problem they have now is ratings dwindling because of years of lazy booking and surviving by doing the bare minimum.

When they were under pressure from WCW, they took risks and it was better for everyone. Characters thrived and TV was exciting.

As a business, I would expect them to think long term about their product and not just the here and now.

John Cena is a legend. Don't get all the hate he gets. Good in the ring, good on the mic, his woman has a nice ass. What's not to like?

Oh i don't know, maybe not wank away money on half brained schemes like the WBF the XFL, WWE Films, Linda running for government (may or may not have been her own money, afaik that was never mentioned one way or the other). Sterling examples of doing whats best for their bank balance, right?

As for Cena, all they did was play it safe and as a result they had a situation where they eventually had to bribe people to tune into the show (the million dollar giveaway), and their top "star" everyone's meant to cheer for was booed out of the buildings for the better part of a decade.

They didn't even test the waters with a Cena heel turn, it may have went really good, it may have went over like a fart in church, at this point we'll never know. Either way wwe continue to treat their fans like they have a memory retention span of 10 minutes so a failed heel turn is easily rectified in their eyes. Vince talks about being a risk taker, i think his grapefruits are more like prunes after the XFL debacle. The Vince of the attitude era would have had no issues turning Cena heel.

There are a few things that other people do better than Cena, but no one is as good at everything as Cena.

Definitely top 3 on yhe mic though, if not #1.

In fairness, the quality of his matches gradually improved over the years. He wasn't always "big match john".

Cena was always amazing. Just everyone else in his era was shit besid3s for Orton basically

Which is why Cena became stale because there was and still is no one to fill his void besides Lesnar.

Flacco is killing it today. Did you see that td pass?

Outside of the occasional story throughout the years, no real issues with him outside the ring. Could probably argue he's the best major star the WWE ever had in terms of media and PR stuff just due to the vast amount of stuff he has done.

Inside the ring, more of a meh stance but mainly because of how terrible/stale his booking generally is. Personally I'd break him down into 3 eras with really liking him a lot during the pre-Super Cena era, completely despising him during the Super Cena era, and a mixed but leaning more towards the enjoyable side since the feud with The Rock.

He is better than Reigns at least.

Yet Orton and Cena cannot work a great matcg together @Noid

"It would have been cool if they turned cena heel"

If you dont get why thats a stupid sentence i promise youre a mark.

Something to keep in mind about Cena is that ratings did go down under him. They were determined to get him over, but the push actually pushed people away. He did well selling merch to dumb kids still watching wrestling, but when it comes to naming the biggest stars in wrestling, there's no way he's anywhere close to Hogan, Austin or even Rock, who routinely helped Cena get over the million buy line for Mania.

Cena's star will continue to grow now, with the secret being out that he does have personality and can make it in Hollywood. And that's the star that is going to be remembered and valuable moving forward. People aren't suddenly going to look at Cena vs. Triple H from Mania 22 as expert storytelling. And Cena now is so much better than Cena from a decade ago. When Cena first got given the belt and got smashed over, he was not six years into his career. Now he's been doing this for 19.

That does make sense. But that's like those people who say that "Austin was an asshole, so doesn't that technically make him a heel?"

#Fan explained it perfectly. People were just fed up with stale white bread. They wanted to see things get more intense and less "poopy."

Cena has made them money hand over fist. Again, why change something that's working financially

They could potentially make more over time by taking risks but I get what you mean.l

A wigger that doesn't deserve any credit for anything.

Yeah, this is true. This is kind of where I am on the whole three-hour thing. "But they get more money for the more time." Yeah, but you take the risk, sharpen the product, bring more people in, increase ratings, PPV buys (when that was a thing), Network subs, and hopefully capita per head. Is it better to fill up an arena and get a 3.0 for a two-hour show where people buy all this merchandise, or is it better to get a 1.0 for a three-hour show where the arenas aren't full and a few people buy some merchandise.

NOTE: This is not an accurate description of current WWE. I think the current per capita is actually quite high, but it's a hyperbolic example. A hot product is going to generate more money than that third hour cooling Raw is.

the problem is "taking risks" in Vince's mind is booking HHH to fuck a fake corpse so maybe it's a better idea to stick with the formulaic booking.

Formulaic booking would be preferable over corpse-fucking, just as long as the formulae worked.

I mean as much as we say there's no new stars, it's a means to an end for them right now. They're still profitable as far as I know.

It's awful to watch but it's not catered to us so what can you do?

I don't know if there's any guy that has a big match feel in the WWE right now except for Cena. Maybe AJ, but i think his best feud was with Cena.

Brock's value has completely sunk in my opinion. Does anyone really care about this triple threat right now?

So yeah, thank god they have Cena to plug in when needed.

Those days are over:(

How much of that is down to the opponent(s) though?

I’ve zero interest in Kane competing for one of the top titles in 2018, and I don’t see them switching the title to Braun. I’d sooner Brock just sit at the top of the ramp on an throne watching everyone fight for the chance to face him. That said, it’ll probably be Reigns so we’re back to my initial question.

Yeah. I mean, they're expanding. Their profits aren't that wide, considering their expenses, and a shitty TV deal, or lowered attendance and Network subs could very quickly cause them to downsize. But they could get healthy after a bad quarter or two really fucking fast. Bye, bye 205 Live, half the roster, brand split, and second touring schedule.

But I have a feeling they are going to up SmackDown for that third hour, do continued stuff with YouTube and try and get something else on the USA Network. So we'll see.

Brock beating the piss out of Kane and Braun will hopefully be funny.

oh definitely, it all has to do with who they throw at Brock. even though he really hasn't had too many matches in 2017, I feel like he had far too many. I like guys like Somoa Joe and Braun Strowman, but i think they devalued Brock's aura. Plus I hated the Big Show and know Kane feuds. can't stand them anymore.

I did love the AJ match though.

I think there are a number of factors which have led to less fan issues with Cena over the last few years.

1. Addressing the criticism - We've seen lots of promos in the last couple of years which have seen Cena's opponents openly criticising him for keeping other people down, being a corporate stooge etc. By doing this Cena has actually been able to address this and talk about how much he's gone out and busted his ass etc etc. Doing this means the WWE has been able to openly critique Cena and obviously as a face the intention is for this argument to fall on the sympathetic side to him. Cena also seems to have more room with promos himself, drawing on real life which plays to those Smarter fans who hated him the most.

2. Less Cena - Fans got sick of seeing him in the main event, crushing everyone (who then frequently faded into obscurity) but as he's become a part-timer, he isn't on TV every week and therefore it is much harder to get sick of him. He's also lost a fair few more times recently which again, prevents that fatigue and makes him a bigger attraction as a result.

3. Roman Reigns - Every issue you could complain about with Cena in the late 2000 and early 2010s can be leveled at Reigns, except without the charisma. If fans are going to hate Reigns for these issues, Cena seems comparatively less problematic. Basically, Reigns is worse than Cena in fans mind so he draws the heat instead.

Combine this with Cena being able to show himself in the ring on a couple of occasions and it just means the hate has been able to move away from Cena.

I think he will always be booed to an extent, but it is becoming more out of nostalgia in a 'You Suck'/Kurt Angle way.

Yeah, there are a lot of things that have compounded the acceptance issue with Cena.