New Japan Pro Wrestling: On-going Discussion
 

After a third straight amazing Wrestle Kingdom and some interesting angles coming out of New Years Dash, I thought it would be a good place to get people up to speed and then talk about their events going forward.

NJPW World is their equivalent of WWE Network: http://njpwworld.com and Fragile X posted a doc with the must watch matches from history: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...7pI/edit#gid=0

But onto the new shit:

The next big events are New Beginning on Feb 5th and Feb 11th. The cards are STACKED

February 5, 2017 on NJPWWorld.com (English & Japanese Commentary)
Match Note(s)
KUSHIDA & Hirai Kawato vs. Suzukigun (Yoshinobu Kanemaru & El Desperado) Tag Team Match
Yuji Nagata, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima vs. Yoshitatsu, David Finlay & Henare Six Man Tag Team Match
Katsuyori Shibata, Jushin Thunder Liger & Tiger Mask IV vs. CHAOS (Will Ospreay, Gedo & Jado) Six Man Tag Team Match
YOSHI-HASHI vs. Takashi Iizuka Singles Match
Michael Elgin, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Manabu Nakanishi, Ryusuke Taguchi & Dragon Lee vs. Los Ingobernables de Japon (Tetsuya Naito, SANADA, EVIL, BUSHI & Hiromu Takahashi) Ten Man Tag Team Match
Roppongi Vice (Rocky Romero & Beretta) (c) vs. Suzukigun (TAKA Michinoku & Taichi) IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championship Match
Hirooki Goto (c) vs. Juice Robinson NEVER Openweight Championship Match
CHAOS (Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano) (c) vs. GBH (Togi Makabe & Tomoaki Honma) vs. Killer Elite Squad (Lance Archer & Davey Boy Smith Jr.) IWGP Tag Team Championship 3-Way Match
Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Minoru Suzuki IWGP Heavyweight Championship Match

http://68.media.tumblr.com/37c8a7695...rtjo1_1280.jpg

Match Note(s)
Yoshitatsu & Hirai Kawato vs. David Finlay & Henare Tag Team Match
Hiroyoshi Tenzan, Satoshi Kojima & KUSHIDA vs. Suzukigun (Takashi Iizuka, Yoshinobu Kanemaru & El Desperado) Six Man Tag Team Match
Juice Robinson, Jushin Thunder Liger & Tiger Mask IV vs. CHAOS (YOSHI-HASHI, Gedo & Jado) Six Man Tag Team Match
CHAOS (Kazuchika Okada, Rocky Romero & Beretta) vs. Suzukigun (Minoru Suzuki, TAKA Michinoku & Taichi) Six Man Tag Team Match
Hiroshi Tanahashi, Manabu Nakanishi & Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Los Ingobernables de Japon (SANADA, EVIL & BUSHI) NEVER Openweight 6-Man Tag Team Championship Match
Katsuyori Shibata vs. Will Ospreay Singles Match (RPW Heavyweight Championship Match if Shibata is still champion at this point)
CHAOS (Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano) vs. GBH (Togi Makabe & Tomoaki Honma) vs. Killer Elite Squad (Lance Archer & Davey Boy Smith Jr.) IWGP Tag Team Championship 3-Way Match
Hiromu Takahashi (c) vs. Dragon Lee IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship Match
Tetsuya Naito (c) vs. Michael Elgin IWGP Intercontinental Championship Match

Shibata V Osprey should be goddamn glorious. Their brief interaction at New Years Dash was great

http://i.imgur.com/P0U9y59.gif

Hopefully this makes it all easier to talk and watch this shit

They need to get a PSN or Amazon Fire app. I'd get on bored today if they did.

Yeah, I'm alright because I have a Chromecast, so I can just send the videos over the network, but I can see why it would be a blocker for people without that.

Hiromu Takahashi (c) vs. Dragon Lee IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship Match

This should be damn good as well.

I love that Shibata sees Ospraey doing his stupid pose and wants to PK his face off

IWGP Heavyweight Champion Minoru Suzuki

Excited to see these shows. Need to catch up on New Year's Dash.

Anyone have a gut feeling on G1 this year?

I think Omega could take it again.

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I think it'll be Omega, who finally wins the belt next year at WK.

I'd like to Shibata get a bigger push.

I don't think Omega is going to win it twice, although it would make a good story. I could see it being Okada after losing the title to go on to face Omega though.

For sure a possibility. Okada could drop to Suzuki who could drop to Omega sometime in the fall.

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I think the main event of Wrestle Kingdom next year is going to be Okada vs. Naito. I don't know whether you have Okada drop the belt to Suzuki and then win it back himself or if Naito wins it from Suzuki somehow. Does Japan do heel vs. heel matches? I'd be fine with Suzuki dropping it to a babyface and then Naito winning it from them. But yeah, my guess is either Naito or Okada for the G1.

Then again, maybe that is just the finals of it? I just think there is money in the idea of the two men that have beaten Tanahashi at Wrestle Kingdom these past two years fighting each other.

Naito is already a tweener, I can see him taking it off of Suzuki to become a full fledged face

I could dig Naito v Okada.

I really do think Omega is getting the strap in the next year if he signs. And I think he will headline WK next year, whether he's defending or chasing the belt.

Sweet theme for Hiromu btw

Call me crazy, but I see them "making" Omega without putting the belt on him. He's already the first gaijin to win the G1 and he has had that match which has turned heads. I don't know what the exact plans for the expansion are, but Omega is likely to be a huge part of that. I'm not sure if they will create a new title or have him do it as the Intercontinental Champion or something, but I don't necessarily see him being "A1."

They can keep his title win in the back pocket for Wrestle Kingdom in two years time or even further down the track.

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Rumor going around the net hint Omega might have signed or is in the process of signing a new 2 year deal with NJPW.

After everything Omega has done in his career so far, I just want him to succeed to the highest level possible.

That promo from Suzukigun is better than most of the WWE ones you see. It wouldn't surprise me to see Archer & Smith back in a WWE ring one day.

The lead guy came off great. A quiet intensity about him.

The two American guys were meh. Came off fake as fuck. Wish they'd just do an mma style promo like the other guys seem to do.

Btw I'm digging heel Taka

The two americans.....one is British Bulldog's son and British-Canadian broski. ;)

Oh excuse me. The two foreigners. Now I feel dumb lol.

Boy junior bulldog was unrecognizable.

After that goddamn match? Shiiiit

Can't see how he's not getting the belt at some point. His story as it stands is right there for him to eventually win it.

Yeah if I'm Omega, and NJPW doesn't want me in the main event this year, then I'd go to WWE. Fuck that shit.

Yeah, the way Okada put him over after the match as well saying he's the strongest foreign wrestler in the history of NJPW that he wouldn't be in the title picture. Also he just had to hit the One Winged Angel on Okada to win the title. They teased it to much in the match and he never hit it.

I think the best thing they could do is have Kenny and a couple BC guys go on excursion to maybe PWG or ROH or some where on the west coast this summer to keep Kenny away from Okada and the title picture. With the opening rounds of the G1 in California Kenny can make it his goal to win the G1 again and is going to leave Japan until he feels good enough to be IWGP Heavyweight Champion. Kenny does win it again and Okada if feel might drop the title some time this year but gets it back to set up Okada/Omega 2 and I don't know if they top this year's match but by God Kenney hit the One Winged Angle, maybe 4.

There's more than just being in the main event. There is long-term business to think about and a way to create more stars by off-shooting from Omega. For example, it makes perfect sense for him to be in the G1 again. It also makes sense for him to lose in the finals, putting over another guy (my money is on Naito still) and then having to face the reality he won't be challenging for the IWGP Heavyweight Title. What's the next best thing? Personal pride? The IC Title? There are other ways to spread Omega out and essentially get two special attractions and create quite a few stars around him.

I'd honestly have him penciled in to win the G1 Climax in 2018. Make it a story of redemption for Omega. He wins the G1 after failing a year before hand and then possibly heads into war against either Naito or Okada for redemption in the main event of Wrestle Kingdom 13.

If you did this, you'd probably have the IWGP Heavyweight Title move from Okada to Suzuki and then back to Okada. Naito probably fails at Wrestle Kingdom 12. He and Omega fight in the G1, Omega wins and then heads against Okada, where he finally wins the IWGP Heavyweight Title after over two years of chasing, provided that he signs another two year deal with New Japan. Honestly, if I'm New Japan, I'd probably try to lock him down for 5, but I'm not sure they do business that way.

It's a good idea but I feel like waiting two years to give Omega his redemption is a little long. Kenny shouldn't be interested in anything other than the IWGP Heavyweight Championship and two years of him floating around the upper mid card would be regression. I like that he has decided to take time off after that match and his reasons. Thats why I think he needs to come back to North America and have matches with guys that can prepare him for becoming champion. Guys like Alberto El Patron in ROH, RVD in Noids favorite New promotion PCW, Kurt Angle assuming he doesn't go to WWE somewhere, Pentagon Jr in PWG all the while promoting himself for the G1 later this year in California.

I like Omega working all over, but I do think you can stretch this out. Omega vs. Tanahashi, Omega vs. Suzuki or Omega vs. Shibata in the #2 match at Wrestle Kingdom 12 works fine.

Okada is their A1 guy. Like with Tanahashi and Nakamura a few years ago, with there being no real space for Nakamura in the immediate IWGP Heavyweight Title scene, I'd be fine with the IWGP IC Title being the "A2" belt for Omega to hold and make his own. New Japan has treated the belt like it has importance. It doesn't need to be a secondary title.

They could even do the "vote on your main event" thing with it and it could even headline.

When you look at the championships in New Japan right now, I think the IWGP Heavyweight Championship should be based around Okada. He can probably drop it off to Minoru Suzuki to give him that run, but it should probably move back to Okada by the time of the next Wrestle Kingdom.

The IC Title can be the Kenny Omega scene. If they decide to move up Naito, then maybe Togi Makabe can complete his singles Triple Crown with an IC Title win in order to get the belt onto Omega and keep Naito/Omega free as a big match?

The NEVER Openweight Title scene looks like it is the playground for Hirooki Goto for the foreseeable future.

On the topic of belts in New Japan, I do think that they could probably unify the IWGP Tag Team Championship and Junior Heavyweight Tag Titles. You can still do junior tags, but there isn't much drama left in holding either set of belts. Putting some junior teams against some of those heavyweight teams could really help out the overall health of New Japan's tag scene.

While I'm not a big fan of the Six-Man Titles, I was always intrigued by the idea of the U-30 Championship. They retired the belt fairly quickly, but when you look at the former champions -- Hiroshi Tanahashi and Shinsuke Nakamura -- well, they didn't exactly flop in Japan. I'm not saying the U-30 Title is responsible for that, but maybe there is a place for it in New Japan? I dunno, it might seem unnecessary, but I've always been a mark for the idea of that belt.

According to Wikipedia, here are the talent in New Japan that are under the age of 30:

* Adam Cole
* Hangman Page
* Henare
* Juice Robinson
* Seiya Sanada (my pick for revived champion)
* Chase Owens
* David Finlay? (not sure of his age, but I'd guess he is under 30)
* Hiromu Takahashi (current Junior Heavyweight Champion)
* Jay White
* Nick Jackson
* Ricochet
* Sho Tanaka
* Will Ospreay
* Yohei Kamatsu

Even if the belt was mainly to earmark Sanada and Takahashi and maybe give Ricochet and Ospreay to fight over when they're not in the Junior Heavyweight scene, it would at least serve a purpose.

ROH is doing another War of the Worlds tour with NJPW in May with shows in Toronto Dearborn MI (?) and Philly at the old ECW arena. I went to the Philly show 2 years ago it was pretty awesome at the time seeing Nakamura Okada and AJ Styles wrestle..I might go back again. There was also an NXT Show a couple nights later..it was pretty fun.

I might try to go to the G1 show in Long Beach this year.

For the shows in English, Corinos replacement is:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LFxHLAACVq.../s400/0018.png

Yeahhh, pretty good choice.

I may travel from NYC to Philly for this

Shibata might be in deep shit. A woman is posting various pictures and chatlogs on Twitter claiming that Shibata (who is a married man) had an affair with her.

In the US it'd be whatever, but in Japan there is an expectation that celebrities that get caught up in moral scandals be punished and publicly shamed for it. NJPW have suspended wrestlers for similar transgressions in the past.

Supposedly Shibata's only signed through March as well. Should these allegations end up being true, they might allow his contract to expire and let him go back to being a freelancer.

Hey, WWE could get him. Their top guy is an adulterer!

https://media.giphy.com/media/8ioMpseLlvQC4/giphy.gif

If WWE have read my 2017 Royal Rumble fantasy booking, I should add to it that I'd love to see The Miz introduce Shibata as his silent bodyguard who can just standing there looking menacing in a suit and Penalty Kick anyone who steps out of line.

Keep in mind when they did this the last time it sold so well that they expanded it to 2 nights AND WWE got involved and did 2 nights if NXT shows (which at the time NXT had just started touring so it was a big deal.

Gen public tix sales are Friday at 10 am

Shibata would be a great signing for the WWE. The dude's got a "vibe" that could work. I actually like the idea of him being a bodyguard for The Miz. Could help him "get over" to audiences who don't give a shit about puroresu. It's doubtful he will ever be the guy in New Japan because they are still butt-hurt about him leaving while Tanahashi and Nakamura stayed.

Pretty much any non English speaking foreigner wouldn't be a good signing for WWE unless it's nxt only.

Hard to get over when you can't cut a promo and the reality is it's unlikely they give him a mouthpiece.

Completely disagree. A guy that doesn't talk is MORE likely to get over in today's WWE, because it's fresh, interesting and will help him stand-out from the pack. The kiss of death is if they have him start speaking Engrish. Unless he's got some sort of conviction behind it that makes him sound deadly.

I'd like to see them give him video packages with him speaking in Japanese with subtitles, personally. Or just hand his segments off to Heyman to produce, since he will know what to do. Hell, Brock as Heyman's RAW guy and Shibata as Heyman's SmackDown guy could work.

Let's be realistic. Heyman managing anyone other than Lesnar is extremely unlikely.

Shibata coming over and getting over without talking and while having his in ring style watered down heavily is highly unlikely. It COULD work, if he's part of a faction. But as a lone competitor who doesn't talk? I can't see that working anywhere but nxt.

Being realistic, the chances that anyone gets over at all is highly unlikely, unless it is ironic because they're not supposed to be over. AJ Styles is like the only guy.

Omega is making an announcement tomorrow, was doing a Q&A in the UK and was teasing going to WWE saying that he probably "wouldn't be able to pull a rabbit out of the hat" when someone said "see you Sunday". Clearly working people I think, but there are reports he's been offered $1million per year by WWE.

Omegas signed on for another year

All ready for New Beginning!

http://i.imgur.com/eb1tVc2l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nBk6AlCl.jpg

I wish this app were available through logical channels

If WWE ever wanted to sign Kazuchika Okada to a deal, they likely would be looking at something over $2 million per year to make it even possible. Amount is based on his current deal and what NJPW has been spending building him up as their new "Ace" or mega star.

Got revealed during a recent article Vice had about Kenny Omega.

https://sports.vice.com/ca/article/k...ling-superstar

Styles/Cena was a better match than Okada/Omega. Fight me.

You're entitled to your opinion Noid. I don't know why you're being so confrontational. This is a place of love.

What if I told you that I have evidence this was a measurable fact?

I'd say it's still your opinion and be skeptical of "measureable facts" for wrestling

It'll have to wait anyway, Suzuki is currently besting the ever loving shit out of Okada.

That started out great but it turned fucking stupid. Okada is basically their Cena and Jesus Christ that was as bad as Cena V Nexus

...Oh my. Okada just challenged Ibushi out of nowhere.

Because Gedo is such a WWE mark at booking this shit, this could be like when Cena picked Bryan as his opponent.

Except Bryan in this scenario is from an anime and wears a tiger mask.

Damn I fell asleep and didn't see hardly anything.

Is he challenging Ibushi as in Kota Ibushi, or Ibushi as in Tiger Mask W or whatever it is Ibushi?

He's challenging Tiger Mask because you probably can't get Ibushi out of it.

Hopefully it is a good match anyway.

Translation from someone on Reddit from a couple of the promos

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C371kuIWcAIvals.jpg

Kota and Okada could be another six star.

Just canceled my NJPWorld account. It's my rebellion for not having a true english access site, can't deal with that anymore. Plus everything new is on watch wrestling so fuck it.

Ibushi on Tiger Mask W:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5YKt-xVcAAtSP2.jpg

Good fucking god, Omega and Okada did it again.

This fucking dodge/sell after 50 minutes was just incredible

http://i.imgur.com/TiIKBiq.gif

Wasn't around when this was posted so, late reply.

I think okada vs omega told the better story. You had omega working the back and neck, to soften him up for the One Winged Angel. Meanwhile Okada is doing everything he can to avoid getting hit with it, instead of just kicking out of the finisher, which we see in every other big match including styles vs cena. The story goes begins before match itself in that regard, as they built up to it by making omegas finisher a one hit kill. Something that's very unique and different in japan, and even here in the states these days.

Styles vs Cena is more or less your basic big star wwe match, though they executed it as beautifully as anyone. The problem is its the same kind of match they had before at summerslam. Where as okada vs omega uses the continuity of the last six months to tell its story, cena vs styles is content to do more of the same. They even repeated the super AA kickout, which while still a cool spot, lacked the impact that it had the first time, because you knew aj was going to kick out. It just seemed a tiny bit lazy, to just put in an already used big spot, rather than making something different.

I honestly think this one was better than Wrestle Kingdom somehow. I knew the result going in and I was still utterly lost in the match. I had the New Legacy Inc Discord recording on and they were losing it as well. Had Johnny yelling HOLY SHIT YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT OKADA when he got the ropes after the one winged angel. How some of those knees and filthy Okada dropkicks didn't seriously injure either of them I'll never know. Same with those snap dragon suplexes.

Okada/Omega II was better than the first, but only slightly.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Somewhere meltzers covered in a pool of his own jizz and 6+⭐️ <a href="https://t.co/RyBal6xYKG">https://t.co/RyBal6xYKG</a></p>&mdash; Juice Robinson (@_juicerobinson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/_juicerobinson_/status/873993127048040448">June 11, 2017</a></blockquote>
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How can a match be better than 6 stars? That's like saying something is better than 120% of itself.

That's a good analysis. I felt more drawn into the action of Cena/Styles, because, to me, Cena has more cache, so things like AJ Styles kicking out of his moves means more than a dude I don't know's finish. It's possible I would change my opinion if I followed New Japan a bit more closely and was more invested in Okada as champion and Omega as a challenger.

I thought it was a great match. I did find stuff like the Dragon Superplex took me out of it completely. It was a bad emotional note to play, in my opinion, and to me that was a big deal, but I want to re-state that I did think it was a good match. I just find the child-like hyperbole around it a bit silly.

I sometimes forget that Juice Robinson exists, but I honestly do believe that one day he'll be back in the WWE and be a big star for them.

I don't think they'll make him a big star, but goddamn if he hasn't shown himself ina great light since leaving. Takes balls to leave WWE and take a bet on yourself like that when you don't really have the name value, but he looks better than Cody right now for me.

What is this from?

https://media.giphy.com/media/12Kbnv4k08tNni/giphy.gif

I agree that the whole 6 star match of the decade stuff was overblown. It was a 5 star match imo. Plenty of other matches tnroughout the years that top this one for me.

@slik One of the Battle of the Super Juniors shows. There's been some crazy shit recently.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/08e6a79d...hmddo1_400.gif

He reminded me of The Miz in NXT. He had all the outside tools needed to be a star, but just needed to work on his in-ring. You may be right, but I am optimistic for him.

It's refreshing to hear someone praising the match with some perspective, lol.

I maintain that it's not even going to be the match of the year. It sounds like many people think that they've actually topped it themselves.

With how it ended, obviously Omega/Okada is happening again... But is it this year and just lock out the top 3 matches of the year, or save it for Wrestle Kingdom?

I can very easily see it being saved for Wrestle Kingdom, but I could see them having Okada make it to the finals against Omega, them doing the third match as the final bout, with Omega winning and challenging for Okada's championship at Wrestle Kingdom having proven that he can beat the champion.

Since it's been the G1, only Chono and Tenzan have won the tournament in back-to-back years. It'd be a pretty cool story for Omega to win it en route to his first IWGP Heavyweight Championship.

I can see Omega doing a CM Punk style thing, where he wins the IWGP Title and then doesn't immediately sign with New Japan (or at least teases that he hasn't). He can tweet Vince asking him if he wants Omega vs. Styles for the IWGP Title at WrestleMania -- that sort of shit.

I'm not confident that Brock will leave the WWE when his contract expires, but it wouldn't be the strangest thing in the world for Brock to ask for an insane amount of money, Vince to say no and Brock to say "screw you then -- I'm going back to New Japan."

Can you imagine Brock vs. Omega for the IWGP Title at Dominion next year? It could start a story of rebuilding for Omega, who worked his little Canadian ass off to earn the IWGP Title, only to now need to claw his way back into contention.

who do you think Jim Cornette hates more, Kenny Omega or Vince Russo?

Probably himself

Definitely Russo. He just thinks Omega is a berk.

Does Omega still pull stupid faces?

I could see them putting the belt on Cody via screwyness in the US shows as they're oddly hot on him compared to his showings since he's been there, especially as they had a mini angle of him trying to throw in the towel for Omega, have some heat with them and the Elite finally breaking off from The Club, OMega wins the belt off Cody which sets up the Okada/Omega rematch.

Interesting. I can see Omega/Cody for the belt, but probably after Omega wins it. I could see Cody winning that US Title they are creating.

Cody is actually facing Okada for the IWGP on their US shows. That's already booked.

Oh okay. I'd much rather see Okada as champion than Cody, to be honest.